[0:00]attorney Jack Thompson and also Paul Levenson, the professor and chair of communications at Media Studies at Fordham University.
[0:07]And sir, thank you both for being with us. We appreciate seeing you today. Jack, I want to start with you today because you are a bit of a controversial figure.
[0:15]You helped write the Louisiana legislation that would ban these sales. Why do you think it's necessary to have a band?
[0:20]It's not a ban. A ban to minors, I should say.
[0:23]Yeah, well, because 40 some states have laws that prohibit the distribution of sexual material harmful to minors. We have a movie rating system in that regard and the industry itself labels these games as adult or mature.
[0:39]And therefore we are simply saying to the industry, if you're going to label these things and admit that they're harmful to minor, stop selling them to them. The Federal Trade Commission found last month that roughly 42% of the time, you any kid of any age can walk into any retailer and buy any game, like Grand Theft Auto San Andreas despite the game rating.
[0:57]So we're simply saying, stop selling these adult games to kids. And if apparently the industry is afraid of what's coming their way because this law was passed unanimously in Louisiana by the way by every legislator.
[1:09]Just two days ago, the industry had a press conference in the rotunda of of the Capital and they said get well, we're going to stop selling these games to kids. It's about time. It's 10 years too late.
[1:20]Paul, he brings up some good points. A lot of people wouldn't want these games in the hands of kids. What do you think about these laws?
[1:25]I don't want them in the hands of kids either, but the laws are totally unconstitutional.
[1:29]Why? Because we have a first Amendment that says Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech. Last time I checked, entertainment was a form of speech.
[1:38]Although keeping them out of the hands of minors, we do that with movies too. You can't get into a rated R movie if you're under 17.
[1:44]That's wrong also. The fact of the matter is there's not a scintilla of scientific evidence that any movie or video game, however violent has ever caused any damage in the real world.
[1:55]Okay, let me And there are no and there are no shortage of perverts and criminals out there who do real damage, who kidnap, kill people.
[2:04]That's who the legislatures should go after. That's who the lawyers should dress stronger legislation uh to punish.
[2:11]Jack, the professor apparently doesn't know that the American Psychological Association, the largest collection of psychologists in the world issued a report in August of 2005 saying that there's a direct causal link between the play of violent video games by adolescents and minors and violence that we're seeing in the real world.
[2:32]So professor, how in the world could you say such a thing that there's no evidence? There's 30 some studies in the last several years uh uh participated in by the American Medical Association and others that draw a direct link between violent entertainment that teens play and real increased aggression and violence.
[2:54]So it's simply a a misstatement. I assume you misspoke to suggest you are for you are unfortunately so are ignorant of statistics and don't really understand those studies.
[3:04]Every the American psychological Association is ignorant. You're apparently too rude to even listen to uh the answer to your question.
[3:13]Good. Those studies show correlations between watching video games and violence. They do not show causation.
[3:21]No, no. And the fact of the matter is levels of violence have not increased. What's the difference between correlation and causation?
[3:28]Uh there's a big Correlation means that two things are happening at the same time. Causation means that the first thing causes the second So the fact of the matter is you can look and see that levels of violence have not increased.
[3:42]Oh no, they have with the advent of uh video games. No, for example here in New York City. Here in New York City sir, let me finish my point.
[3:51]What point is that? Levels of violence have decreased over the past 10 to 15 years beginning with Mayor Giuliani and his uh cleanup of of criminals in New York.
[4:00]Jack, so let me just finish. I noticed specifically in this period of time that there was an increase in the sale of violent video games.
[4:08]So how do you explain that sir? Okay, that's called a filibuster. Uh well it's called making sense. Should I get to talk now?
[4:12]Jack, go ahead. ABC News found last month and reported that there's in fact an increase in teen violence. Um and and so your your your figures are incorrect.
[4:24]Secondly, the American Psychological Association found not correlation but causation. Uh the AMA said uh six years ago that there are now literally a thousand studies that show the causal link, not the correlation, the causal link between violent entertainment and teenage violence.
[4:44]And in fact, the US Supreme Court in Roper v. Simmons last year which struck down the juvenile death penalty uh cited brain scan studies that we're relying on in our case in Alabama that show that individuals who are in their teens process this type material in the part of the brain that leads the copy catting behavior.
[5:02]So the Supreme Court apparently sir is out of touch. The entire American Psychological Association is out of touch and you're the only one who thinks there isn't a correlation.
[5:12]Gentlemen, hold on just a second. We are about out of time here. I'm going to have to end it here. What I will do is ask you both to come back. I feel like we have a lot of information to go through here.
[5:20]We do. I'd be happy to. All right. Jack Thompson again and Paul Levenson, a professor and chair of communications at Media Studies at Fordham University.
