[0:06]Kristian Thali Paul Chanmari Branch YouTube channel duhsak taka min hriat sak thintu te Lalpa Isua Krista hmingin chibai kan buk a che u. Tun tuma program min rawn host tu hi Zorem Mawia kan ni a. Tun tumah hian kechi pi tan inleng duhawm deuh mai kan ko m tur kan nei a. Kan inleng hi tu dang nilovin Reverend Aneron Owen KTP mi zawn dan duhsak tak tak tak a puzawl awm tia kan ko chhin kha ani a. Anih hi Mizoram a kan missionery te thla kal zel ami an fa te ani a Reverend Owens kan ti pual Owen a tia kan hriat Mizoram a kechi pi min din saktu kha mi fa pakha ani a. Tun tumah hian kawmna hun duhawm deuh mai kan nei theih dawn a kan lawm hle ani. Okay first of all Puzawl awm, thank you so much for setting aside time from your busy schedule to be with us. And for your willingness to share your story. Okay so before going deep into other topics, how are you? How have you been? And how has your stay in Mizoram been so far? Well, this is our first full day. We arrived last night in Kolkata and we came we came last night so it's our first full day and it's been full. Oh, that means you're quite tired. I am quite tired but we went to mission Veng this morning, Sunday school and then this afternoon we visited the refugees from Manipur. Oh down in Vow Kong. We had a lovely time with them and then this evening now we are here in Chanmari, it's lovely to be with you thank you for your welcome. Oh, thank you so much for this interview with KTP members. And we're so delighted to have you over here and if it is not too personal, could you also share a little bit about your health journey. And I've heard from a good friend of mine that you had some health issues. If you can share so that the church in Mizoram can pray for you. Yes, thank you for your prayers. My health is has not been very good since 2019. Hmm. Okay. when I was diagnosed with a serious illness and the treatment has been working and the prayers have been working and I I am I am generally very very well. Okay so good to hear and the prayers are working. The prayers from immediately from Mizoram when when I said that I was poorly then the prayers came in from Mizoram and also also from Wales. Oh. And the Lord has kept me and has blessed me with new grandchildren with new ministry. Oh, that's amazing.
[2:51]Uh with a great passion for the gospel again. Because I think you know when you have serious illness and you are facing death, then it really sharpens your faith. Of course. And you really try and prepare for the end of your life and the beginning of the eternal life in Jesus Christ. And everything becomes more meaningful somehow. It'll be a great new beginning right. And even if you when I look back as well and see what the gospel is doing in Mizoram and across the world, you know, the hope that is in Jesus Christ. Yes, yes.
[3:30]over and above what happens to our body. Our body is is going to finish. Ha. But the Spirit will be forever. Yes. Um so, you know, it's it's a really focusing and I've been blessed by the illness if that makes sense. Oh, The illness has been a blessing to me and God has been very powerful in my illness and the prayers of of the Mizol church has been tremendously important to me. knowing that you are praying for me and my family has been really heartwarming so thank you for thank you thank you more than anything for Thank you so much. That's so soothing to hear and thank you for sharing. And we will continue to hope and pray that the Good Lord's healing hands would be upon you for your speedy recovery. Thank you. And Pu Zohlam, I believe I've seen you multiple times over the past few years through certain media platforms especially during certain events such as KTP General conferences and the synod in comp here as well. So what is your purpose for visit right now? Well, it's a it's almost like a tourist purpose because my grandchildren are with me. Two of two of my granddaughters are with me and my my son Aled. Yes. So in part in part I'm bringing them to see where I was born and to share to share all the places that I know and love. Ha. so it's a bit like a tourist route intertwined with that. There is obviously the KTP conference which is important to us as a family and also we have two musicians from Wales with me. Oh, really? Yeah, and they are two fantastic young musicians. Aline is a pianist and a harpist. Hmm. And Tinos is an opera singer from from Wales now working now working in London. Okay. So they they've come also to learn about the Mizo way of singing. Ha. and the way the Mizos presents accompaniment with with the Mizo drums with with keyboards and with different instruments. So there'll be a learning, there'll be learning about your traditions and your culture. Hopefully we they can share also some of their knowledge about singing and about keyboard skills and even the harp. Oh, okay. The Welsh harp also, yes. Yeah. Those two musicians that you have said have been informed that you'll be hosting a kind of a music seminar in partnership with the Art and Culture Department here in Mizoram. Could you please share a few details about that. Of course, yes. Um we know the link between Wales and Mizoram in terms of the church, the Presbyterian Church in particular. Yes. We know the history of the Gospel in both countries. Yes. But there is uh in Wales, obviously the the church attendance has gone down down down. Yeah. But still we are holding on to our culture and we're holding on to our language and there are many choirs in Wales but they're not in the chapels like here. Okay. They're they're cultural phenomenon. Secular performance. Uh no not not no not all the time. Okay. They will sing gospel songs and hymns increasingly so because there's a new interest in hymns and in the old Welsh hymns. So uh with the art and culture link to extend the knowledge of both the Welsh culture for you and the Mizo culture for us. Yes. We we expand the knowledge of both people. Okay. They experience both the cultures. Yes. So the the idea being that we will we will share that knowledge uh in a brief brief workshops this week. Ha. But hopefully it will lead on to more more cultural exchange. That would be so great. And and in the in we are doing the same with Shillong in Meghalaya. Oh, that's amazing. So we we will have three sensors, Wales, Meghalaya, Mizoram. Okay. All sharing their art art and culture. That would be very great. And and it's not just music, it's going to be it well, it is already arts. Yeah. Artistic expression and dance. Okay that'll be very interesting. and you know all sorts of traditional music and songs. So maybe eventually we will come around to football. Oh my God that's going to be awesome, right. And maybe maybe eventually, you know, we can share uh knowledge about our folk songs and our lullabies for the children. Oh that's going to be a great project, right. Yeah. That's so great to hear. From what you're saying, you it's like three generations are here, right? Yes, yes, my son Aled has come second time for him to come. My other two children have been once before as well. Your granddaughters right. And my Aled has come again and then I have six granddaughters but two only the two elders are here yeah. Okay. So are there any specific reasons that you are taking them with you this time? Well, they're they're 15 almost 15 and 13 years old. Ha. So they're at the age at the age of being able to appreciate I think what they will be seeing and hearing. Okay. the others are quite young, maybe too young to come this time but I hope in God's time that I will be able to bring all of them sometime. Okay. That would be a great project for you as well, right? Yeah. And uh while I was going through your stories on the Presbyterian Church of Wales's website. Yes. What really caught my attention was your proud declaration, like almost as if you were holding up a banner saying that uh you are the child of the mission field of Mizoram. Yes. So it is clear that that uh carries deep meaning to you. So could you explain what that phrase meant to you. Of course, yes.
[9:54]Um I I have been studying uh very very briefly the uh the motivation of the mission. Hmm hmm hmm. Because uh in the last 50 years maybe more than that now, 60, 70 years, the mission um has been criticized. Yeah. Uh for uh either exploitation imperialistic exploitation of of the of the countries that we visited with the gospel. Ha. Or some kind of um removal of tradition and for you know, for for big changes that were detrimental to the original people. Ha. that's been a a criticism of of the mission. And I've been living with that all my life that criticism. People saying no, we we should not have sent the missionaries. We should have stayed. Then many backlashes, right. Yes, backlashes, yes, that's a good way. But when I read the motivation of Zosafian of D. A. Jones in his in his autobiography. Yes. When I read my father's diary when I when I realized what was inside them in motivating them. It was not about domination or imperialistic alternative, it was nothing. Yeah. Maybe because they were Welsh and they came from very poor backgrounds. Hmm. Farming backgrounds. Yeah. My father was my father's father, my grandfather, was a very poor farmer. He had a croft in in North Wales. So D. A. Jones was a son of a farmer. Hmm. We were we were not you know, uh high high people. We we knew it what it was like to be suffering day-to-day or you know, knowing how to live in a very you know, in a very quiet way and in a very respectful way. So when I read the motivation they say that things like in Christ, there is a there is everything that that everything is held in Christ. And Christ is the pinnacle of all things. Ha. Be it cultural, be it artistic, be it everything, be it the gospel. Everything is held by Christ and in Christ. All creation, all the beauty of everything is held in Christ. He is over and above everything. And to present Jesus to anybody is a is such an enriching thing to do. Of course. Is the best is the best thing I can do for you or for anybody else is to present you to Christ. Ha. Because then you become an heir of of God, you know, an heir son of God. Hmm hmm hmm.
[13:09]In the same way that Jesus is this and you will become you will become part of the of the kingdom of God. So then what a motivation, you know, that is the true motivation and the other things were just happening as a side side line. And the, you know, the nurses that came, doctors that came, the preachers that came, the you know, the the people who are coordinating everything. The magistrates that were helping with the mission, they all had this Vision of and and concern to to bring Jesus to people, not not the British Empire. Ha. The center point is always Jesus, right? Yes, and what I see in Mizoram, you know, I am not ashamed of the Gospel and I'm not ashamed of of saying that I am Mizo. Yeah. Because my son last year said when he left, the love of Christ is tangible in Mizoram. Oh my God. That's so good to hear. You know, he felt it in the interaction we have with each other and the love that you have for the people who are suffering. Hmm. In the social care that you have in the in the way that you treat each other with such respect in the in the joy that's in your singing and in your hearts. He said it's tangible, you know, and even even, you know, in the hospital, we went to K Ward which is close to my heart also. Oh, you know, when we went to K Ward and other places in Mizoram with you know, seeing the care the nurses gave and the doctors gave. Oh, you know, if only we had that in Wales. Okay.
[15:02]You know, it it's tangible the love that you have. That's so amazing. Without love, we are nothing. Ha. Amazing. Then continuing with that topic, how long did you stay in Mizoram? Was it your toddler years or your childhood years? No, no. Just just I was only 15 months. No, 13 months. Okay. So you wouldn't have any No, no memory, early memories. Okay. But I came back in 1994. My father passed away in 1982. Ha. My mother in 1988, they were very young in in their 50s. Okay. And uh I came in in 1994 for the Centenary and I made lifelong friends at that time. The KTP organized people to look after me at the time and we are still friends.
[15:56]How how old were you at that time, 1994? 1994, let me think. I was um I was born in 1956 so you were when my calculation is not that fast as well. I think you'd be very young at that time. Yes, maybe 30 38 me. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's quite a good age, right. Then having a father and a mother is already a blessing, right? Uh but having missionary parents uh that would be on another level in terms of how you were raised. So, Pu Zohlam, how did growing up in that environment feels like? And how did your parents shape and nurture your faith and sense of mission and help you become the man of God you are today? Oh, interesting question because um as I said just now in in my greetings, God does not have grandchildren. Ha. God only has children. So even though I am I am the son of a missionary, I had to become a Christian myself. Of course. And I have to give my life to the Lord. I have to decide or respond to the to the call of Christ which I did towards the later years of my teenage years.
[17:15]Okay. Uh so I went on to study theology and it was in college but my upbringing, um my parents were still in touch with all the missionaries. Yes. So there were gatherings annual gatherings of of the mission field. Yes. Uh not just in Mizoram but in other places missionaries came together. Okay. So as children, we were uh going to these events, eating rice. Yes. Dhall and we had curry and things like that which were very unusual at the time in Wales. Nobody, Wales. Oh that's very uncommon. Nobody was eating that kind of thing. And Pu Pu Zana came. Okay. Reverend Pu Zana came to study in Oxford. Ha. And he was very friendly with my father and he came to stay with us and he brought me a present. I I still remember the present he brought me, it was an airplane and I played so much with that airplane. Ha. So I had the concept of um you know, the mission being close very close to us as a family. We had letters through the post. The KTP used to send uh the uh the uh you know, the magazine. Uh we had those through the post. My father was later on in his ministry he worked for Christian Aid. So we had knowledge of of the of of things happening in India in Calcutta and places. So mission and caring and social concern and care care in Jesus's name was very dominant in our family. Obviously there is a rebellion. Ha. Because the children of pastors and the children of missionaries are expected to behave in a certain way over and above everybody else. Of course that would be the expectation.
[19:11]But in fact we are you know, we are worse than anybody else. You know, we have a reputation of being quite mischievous and bad sometimes, very sinful. So we you know, our our sin is very exposed because because all the pastorate will talk talk about oh he's the child of the pastor. He shouldn't he should not behave like this.
[19:40]That kind of thing. So there was a great a great sense of having uh a very moral upbringing but rebelling against it until until the response obviously to the call of the Holy Spirit to be forgiven, to be uh graciously accepted as a child of God, you know, and that joy that that joy of knowing Christ, that change. It doesn't happen to every pastor's child. Hmm. You know. Ha. Because I'm not sure. Um you know, but it thankfully by the grace of God, it happened to me and I'm proud to be Mizo. I'm more more proud to be Christian. Oh, that's amazing. Amen. Amen to that. And Pu Zohlam, I've heard that you have retired from the pastor. Yes. At present in Wales, uh what are your engagements with the church? And do you still hold any offices uh related to the Presbyterian Church of Wales or any other institutions? Not really. I've I've because of my health, I've let most things go now. Um I'm still technically uh past moderator. Hmm. In Wales, moderator is is a moderator elect for two years. Okay. An active moderator for two years and then a past moderator for two years. Okay. So if if the present moderator can't perform a function, they call on me. Okay. But they know they know really that I have um I have uh let go of most things to concentrate on my health and my family. Um so this year, this is a Sabbath here for me. Okay. So I'm resting this year. I'm 70 years old this year. Oh. Um so I will I will hopefully get strength again and see what see what happens next year. Okay. Then uh let's go into the Welsh government. Uh like right now, according to the 2021 census of the Welsh government, 1.4 million people reported having no religion. And which is like 46.5% of the population and 14.4 increase from the 2011 census, making it the largest category. And for Christianity, the figure is 43.6, which is a 14% decrease from the 2011 census. Uh so from this recent census, we can see that Christianity is still the single largest religion in Wales. However, from your point of view, what could be the possible reasons for the 14% decrease in uh Christianity compared to the previous census? I think possibly it's a demographic demographic issue. Um we see this very much in our chapels from day-to-day that the older generation now are passing away and there's no there are no children coming in. No no young young people coming in. So I think there is a natural um demographic demographic shift. Ha. There is however new there are I should say new shoots of of of hope and growth in in Wales. Okay. That's really good here. with uh people young people dedicating their lives to doing mission work. Oh, really? That's so good. So so it's a real blessing for us to have uh young people who are abandoning their possible careers and and instead of of following their intended careers, they gave they gave two, three, four, five years to do some grassroots mission work in in their communities. Okay. That's very good. And and we are seeing blessing, we are seeing young people and children uh coming to faith and our youth service uh Elin, my granddaughter is attending the youth has attended the youth service in Bala and is now studying her Bible and so on. So it it it is encouraging for us to see to see this. Ha. The other phenomenon that is is very odd in a way is that when I talked about the choirs but not being secular and singing hymns. Hmm. Yes. There is a new growth in looking at the real in-depth spiritual hymns of Wales, not not maybe the ones that we've had for the last century but the ones that will really talking about conversion, about the feeling, about you know, the the work of the spirit, about the Calvary and the work of Christ and the efficacy of the blood of Christ. You know, the real the real heartfelt hymns. Hmm. There there is a sense of going back there and and focusing on the genuine thing in the hymns and some of our folk folk singers and even people you would not expect to be singing these hymns. Ha. and are turning to it. They're becoming folk songs again and your real real um real um change in the way people think about the hymns as well. So you're saying that the people that are singing the songs have been touched by the song itself. Yes. And the people hearing the song as well. Yes. Okay that's really good. Yes. And I've been asking them people who don't normally go to chapel or or don't say that they are Christians. I asked them, why are you singing this hymn? And they say because the feeling is genuine because the word the words are genuine. So there is that the Holy Spirit is touching them through singing that song, right? That's so awesome. And I remember my conversion. Ha. Um my conversion, I was repeating some of the hymns that I knew, you know, pleading for forgiveness, pleading for knowledge, pleading for acceptance and knowledge of that acceptance and they are all in these old hymns. Ha. Maybe the Mizos will uh well, you you are still you are still in Revival here so I cannot say anything about your The Mizo.
[26:22]Hmm. Then uh considering all the points that are pointing towards the declining of Christianity in Wales, uh during your tenure as a moderator of the Presbyterian Church of Wales, you would have taken many steps uh initiatives and precautions. Uh so, please share some of the positive outcomes of that initiatives that you have taken. I'm not sure if I took many. Um but uh thankfully there is a very strong team in in PCW in Presbyterian Church of Wales. Strong team that will have great passion for the gospel and great Vision for the work that needs to be doing. So uh quite in briefly, we have started working with artists and and musicians, opening up space. The old chapels, the old chapels that are are not used anymore, opening them up, uh making room for recording of music or of sharing uh music or painting and art with with gospel themes. The women in the Bible or you know or uh the men uh or you know the using themes like to encourage people to come in. Providing coffee and tea. Oh my God. That's one thing that we have with certain chapels. The other thing is working with uh local rugby teams, local football teams. Reaching out to people, young people who are after school, they they cannot do their homework. So they help them with that. Give giving safe place safe place for them to work. Uh just getting to know families and sharing love of Christ with families in their own community. Okay. So true fellowship, you're True true true really grass root. And not not expecting people to come into chapel but taking the gospel out. So I suppose that's my missionary. Yeah. That's great. So for the last question, uh unlike Wales for much of Europe, church attendance in in Mizoram remains socially very dominant and culturally very strong. And there is no dramatic decline visible in the official uh statistics. However, modernization and demographic changes such as urban lifestyle shifts, uh nominal Christianity versus uh active participation and uh Western ideological influences uh causing some subtle changes as well here. Uh which can generally affect the current patterns in few decades. So what are the necessary steps and precautionary measures that we can take to prevent the declining uh Trend that we're seeing in Wales? How much time do you have? We and any consider that is the pay question. We know that Christianity is different to every other religion. Yes. It is different because it is the work of the spirit. It is different because Jesus is the Lord of all. Of course. It's different because it's a matter of calling God calling and really we have to depend on the work of the spirit and of Revival of spirit and of biblical knowledge. Ha. What has happened in Wales we we've lost biblical knowledge because the children haven't been to Sunday school for many generations. We've lost a sense of Revival. We've we haven't seen Revival for you know, for a century. We we have no pastors, very reduced number of pastors and teachers and and Christian witness. So this is what happens in decline when when the world when the world takes over, it steals away the things that are essential. Of course, yeah. So in Mizoram, please, please, you know, do not lose your Sunday school. Of course. Your memory, your teaching of the Bible and and learning verses from the Bible when you are young and putting it into your mind. In the hearts, yes. Yeah. Your hymns, you know already. You have so many hymns in your memory. Uh so keep those things going. Do the outreach, certainly do the Christian work. Yes. You are saved to you are saved to serve. Never forget that the serving is almost almost as important as the saving. Yeah. And and that the you know, the evangelical call of the Gospel of giving life to Christ has to come from the serving of that person. We are called to get to know that person very well. We are not teaching from, you know, from up high. We are preaching from very close. Yes. Uh so KTP is a very good position to get up close to people and to share the gospel in the quite quiet way but with active faith and of love and of hope in this in this fellowship.
[32:26]Amen. Thank you so much. Pu Zohlam, we thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Uh on behalf of the youth fellowship of Presbyterian Church and everyone that is watching, thank you again for being our guest and we pray for God's continued blessing on your ministry, your family and your future endeavors. Thank you so so much. Thank you Zorema. Yes, thank you. Ole kha te zong kha Pu Reverend Enron Owen kawmna hun kan nei theih chhan a ni a, hhi tu te in lo ngaihthla in min bei se Lalpan in zavai min hruai zel rawh se.
