[0:00]All right, and welcome everyone to the first edition of the Hive Thrive Community Hour, where we want to talk about Hive, what works, what doesn't work, and solutions.
[0:14]Because you know it's fine to complain but we got to have solutions or we just keep complaining. And that's just the way we roll.
[0:20]So today we're going to welcome on block trades. I think everybody probably knows block trades unless you're really new to the the platform.
[0:32]And of course my co-host uh coins is here. And as you just heard uh before the recording went on so I'll repeat it for it.
[0:37]He is the guy that created the uh the artwork that is currently there for the the um show and thank you for doing that coins.
[0:45]How you doing today? Yeah, I'm doing really well. Uh I'm I'm it's it's very cold where I'm at. I'm in Bulgaria. Uh but they have a a sauna and a pool. So I I did my.
[0:57]And there was ping pong table which, you know, I've been playing with my son uh you know, so that that's been that's been nice.
[1:04]Oh, that makes nice indoor activity. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[1:10]With the kids you got to you got to really trick them into getting off screens for sure.
[1:13]Yeah, at least for a little while, rest their eyes and and do something else. Use their brains. And with that, block trades, welcome.
[1:22]Thanks, everyone. Nice to see you here today. I know we we tried a couple of weeks ago and and uh you got snowed in. You'd almost think it was winter in your area.
[1:32]Yeah, it's still kind of cold here, but it's getting better. Yeah, it's getting a little milder here. We're up in the 30s today. So, you know, we got a heat wave rolling.
[1:39]And blue Robo has just asked what the show is. It's the high thrive community hour.
[1:43]So block trades, you wanted to come on today. Uh not only for the community to get to know you a little bit better, because, you know, there might be somebody who doesn't know you.
[1:52]And the other thing was we'd love to talk about the DHF with you.
[1:55]Sounds good. So how would you like to first just tell us a little bit about what you'd like to know about you.
[2:01]Okay. Um, I guess I'm one of the lead developers for the high blockchain nowadays.
[2:06]uh primarily working with what's called generally the core area, which is the software that does the main primary processing for transactions.
[2:16]and also uh developing uh software tools for second layer uh development as well.
[2:22]And that's kind of been my focus for the longest time now as we've been working on building up second layer, which makes it easier for more programmers to work on hive without having to to touch the the more troublesome part of the code.
[2:32]So, uh. Okay, so I know that um Oh, I'm sorry. Did you have No, that's good. I don't I don't know if you want to more general knowledge or just my specific things. I'm doing now.
[2:42]I'm a strong believer in people just sharing what they're comfortable with. Okay, that's fine. So we'll kind of go to the the heart of the matter here. Um, one of the things that caught our attention was you took some action with the DHF uh a few weeks ago.
[3:01]Did you want to give us any conversation about what you did and eve even why your reason was. Yeah, so I voted up the refund proposal.
[3:06]Um, I'm getting a little feedback. I don't know if I can figure how to cut that back. Maybe I can, I don't know, we'll just go with it.
[3:11]It actually just seems to trigger at the beginning and then it's okay. So, I I voted up the refund proposal and for those who don't know, the refund proposal is basically the barrier that other proposals have to pass in order to get funding.
[3:24]So if nobody voted up the refund proposal, then basically every proposal would automatically get funded as soon as a single person voted for it.
[3:31]So it's we don't have a hard Barry you have to pass the refund proposals like this floating barrier that any proposal has to pass to have a chance to be funded.
[3:40]Even if they pass the refund proposal doesn't mean they'll necessarily be funded because there's only a certain amount of funding that's supplied every day.
[3:46]And if other proposals that are higher in in the the ranking have more votes, well, that money then they still won't get funded, but in general, there's typically not as many proposals as is there funds available daily.
[3:59]So if somebody is able to get past the refund proposal, that proposal will typically get will will start receiving funds at that point.
[4:05]And so as to reason why I voted up the refund proposal that time, I guess first let me sort of set a little background.
[4:11]I haven't voted up the refund proposal for the longest time. There was a time in the past where I was voting for it, but uh generally I'm sort of in favor of more projects being developed and more work being done on Hive.
[4:26]And I know there's a lot of disagreement on how much money should be spent on and how efficiently the projects projects are, and I get all that. And, you know, we all have different opinions on that to some extent.
[4:33]I don't agree with the proposal that gets funded either, I should say as the starting point. Um, in fact, that's that was in fact the trigger for me this time.
[4:40]There was a proposal I was particularly opposed to for a lot of different reasons, and so I didn't really want to vote up the the refund proposal, but that was pretty much the I basically exhausted my options for anything else to do except to vote up the refund proposal.
[4:54]So I did that and, you know, did some discussions with other voters and stakeholders and, you know, eventually was able to remove my refund proposal vote once I was more satisfied with the state of affairs.
[5:07]Yeah, your vote is kind of a huge sledgehammer, isn't it?
[5:11]It is. I don't have a lot of control over it. It's it's either on or off. It's no in between.
[5:17]So, you know, that's yeah, I I can only make a big vote. I couldn't make a selective vote that just, you know, stop that one proposal, didn't stop all the rest.
[5:25]Right. So you were able to kind of tone it down a little bit and let some of the others slip by the uh the level.
[5:32]Yeah, so once I got take once I didn't have to vote for I remove my vote and then, you know, stuff got back again, but I don't have the you can't do a partial vote.
[5:38]I have to do a full vote and my full vote just moved to moved to refund proposal very, very high.
[5:44]Well, funny you mismention that we've got a question in the audience that's all asked that and then I'll uh I'll yield the mic to uh butt coins.
[5:51]Um, Rion Web has asked why posts have up vote and down vote that don't happen to each proposal.
[5:58]Why do I'm sorry, I didn't really understand it.
[6:01]I'm thinking that she's asking um asking why it doesn't have the ability to vote up vote and down vote on each proposal.
[6:08]Oh, you you can you can up vote every proposal. You just can't download every proposal.
[6:14]So maybe that's maybe that's what he's saying is why you can't It's actually been proposed before and I've considered it too.
[6:19]I I threw it out there as an idea as well, to be able to down vote proposals.
[6:24]I'd say there's plusses and minuses to it honestly, the pros and cons, whatever you want to call it.
[6:28]On the plus side, yeah, it would allow you to very much target a particular proposal that you didn't want to you you your opposed to.
[6:34]On the other hand, the whole process of the DHF is sort of a compromise system to some extent between people who want to fund projects and people who don't.
[6:46]And we could have done it the other way, but then it gets the problem is it it tends that way, I think would tend to discourage spending.
[6:54]Because you could target the things There's kind of like a thing now where if you want to if if you're you're willing to accept a proposal that you would normally down vote and it gets funded because you don't want to also defund other proposals that you're in favor of.
[7:10]So the the system we have now is sort of more encourage spending because you compromise and accepts that some some project gets proposal gets funded in order for yours to get funded.
[7:20]Now you could take the opposite view too and you won't you want as much as little spend as possible and then I think the downloading would be probably the better system because it would it seems like on the face of it at least more likely to discourage funding.
[7:32]So we we as far as why we did it the way we did it, I I would say there was no particular it wasn't a particular thought process we had and we started. We were just looking.
[7:41]So maybe taking a step back. So that's kind of the to pros and cons of those two systems and like I said, I don't I don't know the one's better than the other, sort of depends on your on your view on how much money should be spent, I guess.
[7:51]But as to why we did it the way we did, probably like I said, let's take a step back and look at why the DHF got added.
[7:57]And honestly, it was my idea for the DHF, not not how it works in general, but to add it to steam.
[8:03]And at that time, what happened was we had steam at the company, which was supposed to be doing development for for steam.
[8:12]And they really kind of they weren't doing much. They were doing very, very little, to be honest. And I was kind of disappointed with the the rate of the speed of development.
[8:21]And there was really no system to encourage anyone else to do development because steam had basically had such a high stake, they had an interest, at least theoretically, in developing the software, although they weren't doing much.
[8:33]But no one else could really be justified the amount of labor involved. And plus steam it was kind of in your way anyways, because they generally didn't want you to do anything for them.
[8:41]So my idea was, and since they weren't spending money and I I knew Ned did not want to spend money, I I proposed to Ned that we add uh a way that that could fund other developers.
[8:50]And that's really why the DHF got created. And I at the time, honestly, I was also thinking using to help fund some of my developers to work on to work on steam.
[9:00]So that's that's why and and then as far as the mechanics of how we chose, I'd worked on a previous blockchain called shares.
[9:07]And it had something very similar to DHF. It had a funding mechanism built in where it could fund people. And so we basically looked at that system and basically copied a lot of the details of it.
[9:20]It's not exactly the same but they're but they're very, very similar. We made a couple of changes that I thought were were improvements, but I kept it to a minimum because we we had to do this on a relative, we had to create, we had to write the code for the DHF on a relatively cheap budget.
[9:35]So we couldn't we didn't we weren't investing a huge amount of money in it, so I I feel like, I'm trying to remember how much we charged for it. I think we only charged like 50,000 for the entire thing to develop it and stuff.
[9:43]And one of the big changes we made that I think is most significant was that we pay in a stable coin instead of the coin of the uh, you know, the native coin.
[9:52]And that has a really big advantage because what what I saw in the bit shares world, and some of this is experience I learned watching how their version of the DHF worked, I can't get what it's called right off hand.
[10:03]But the way the way it worked there, because it was paid in the the native coin, the native coin price could go up or down tremendously.
[10:10]So somebody who would wind up either getting paid way too much for what they're doing or way too little, depending on the coin price anytime.
[10:19]So this left the developers unhappy or happy or left one's either the developers or everybody who was voting for it, were unhappy at any given time, generally.
[10:27]So we we we saw that I I decided that a stable coin approach would work better. So that's why we pay in HBD instead of Hive.
[10:32]That makes sense. While you were talking, several people have asked about why not a slider, you know, maybe not necessarily down vote, but a sliding vote, which would have meant that you could have used less less of a sledgehammer.
[10:44]Yeah, we we certainly could have I mean, it certainly could have been done and again, we we just took the the the the method that was used in bit shares.
[10:55]We didn't want to we didn't over engineer it. We didn't spend a lot of time on it to make it I I took what I thought were the obviously better things. And again, the slider approach, it's it has goods and bads to it too.
[11:04]Yeah, it's it's gives you more control as the individual voter, but it it also when you get to this compromise kind of situation, it it again, it's like a it the sledgehammer approach means that I won't casually just I I have to accept for instance, let's take me.
[11:24]Say I I I only wanted to fund one particular project and I don't want to fund anything else.
[11:27]If I had more control, I might be at a easily leverage to do that, but as it is because my vote is all or nothing is so big.
[11:34]I wind up knocking out stuff I'd want to fund and I don't want to fund at the same time.
[11:38]So it it makes me a little more hesitant to just use that kind of power. I mean, honestly, I'm hesitant to use it anyways for the most part, uh, because I I do kind of want to get the community to the point where, you know, it's making more decisions and I'm making less.
[11:51]But, you know, it's a it's somewhat a long-term project.
[11:54]I think most people understood that and it seemed to actually a great conversation. You know, usually when something like that happens on the the chain, it creates controversy.
[12:04]This time was conversation and with that, Butt Coins, I know you've got some and waiting for a question. Uh, Rion Web asked, we'll circle back to it when we're talking about the mech mechanics of the proposals.
[12:16]Go ahead, Butt Coins. Yeah, yeah, the um, it's it's definitely interesting to hear hear your your point of view and and brought up a lot of these ideas that did get they they'd come up or or points that were being made.
[12:31]Uh after you did the return proposal, you know, one of them that I that I you're you're coming close to touching into it. So maybe I'll just kind of dig in a little bit more.
[12:41]You know, one argument that I would that I I saw in a few places was that it was a that it was a mistake to fork over the the ninja mine and and make the DHF because it was fake money to begin with and it was like inappropriate money to begin with.
[13:00]And so it should have been left like over there on that chain and we should be doing funding internally from from I don't know, money.
[13:06]The the I guess the argument that I was sort of seeing was that the DHF is kind of like printing money and it causes too much sell pressure on hive.
[13:16]So, yeah, what what like what is what is your opinion on that? Is that you Yeah, No, not really.
[13:23]But uh, let me let me take it. There's actually two points there, I think, in terms of the money, right?
[13:28]So there's there's there's the ninja mined, basically the steam it stake was moved into there.
[13:33]And then there's also a separate separate supply of money there, which is uh money which is created through inflation. What we call it inflation, but basically a certain amount of money gets printed and put into the DHF all the time.
[13:43]So there's a steady flow of additional money and there's also the the steam at the basically the the same amount that was in the steam at stake, steam, we made that, we took that, we took that amount and put it into the DHF.
[13:55]So they're kind of two separate issues and I guess let's talk about them separately.
[14:00]So, I mean, we call it fake if somebody calls it fake money, that to me is just kind of ridiculous.
[14:05]And all you, by that definition, all the money in Hive is fake money. It's we have a protocol. It it creates a certain amount of new coins all the time and this is just the way the system works.
[14:15]Fake or real, that's what you believe in. I I think, by that definition, also all money is fake including, you know, US dollars.
[14:23]It it gets created all the time, but but let's sort of so getting away from the fake or real, let's talk a more maybe more what I guess a lot more people are concerned about, which is sell pressure.
[14:34]So, if they're concerned about it from an inflation point of view, the DHF that was this the steam it version of the stake was put in there is not, you know, it's not inflationary. It's a fixed amount.
[14:44]However, there is an inflationary, it is an inflationary factor. We have a we have inflation throughout our system. We we we create new money for uh witnesses.
[14:52]We create new money uh the biggest one, the biggest new money is actually created for uh funding uh, you know, uh people's posts and things like that, basically the reward system.
[15:02]And in terms of that, the DHF amount that it gets normally created is relatively small.
[15:07]I I can't remember the exact I feel like it's like 1% of the total. Maybe it's 10%. I can't remember. It's it's a it's a relatively small amount of the total inflation that we create.
[15:17]I guess it must be 10%. It's it's got to be of the total. So that means we got 90% created through other sources.
[15:24]So, by by any means, in my opinion, is it a large sale pressure item in terms of the inflation it creates.
[15:30]Now, now somebody could say, well, I'm talking about the the the amount that was put in there versus the steam at stake, which while a fixed amount is now flows out over time, right?
[15:38]And so someone could say that amount is the amount that that might be what some people say, because it was a, you know, it was a decent amount.
[15:45]But truthfully, a lot of a lot of the DHF that's in there now has actually been raised through various means over time.
[15:51]One of them being just through the uh through the uh the HBD stabilizer, which is actually raised quite a bit as time has gone by because it's pretty profitable venture in terms of HBD uh collection.
[16:03]But yeah, I I honestly, I do not think it's a large source of inflation relative to other sources of inflation. And more to the point, I think we really need Hive as a whole really needs to spend money on development.
[16:17]And the the reasons I don't particularly get too concerned about the amount of money that's spent by the DHF is because I personally spend more than the DHF every year since Hive has been operating.
[16:29]And that's on development, I mean for Hive. So, I know just how small the amount that's being spent by Hive on development is compared.
[16:38]I mean, when I'm personally spending more than the entire DHF, that that tells me that and I I it's not like I think I'm wasting my time with development. I think the money we're spending is very important.
[16:44]So that's sort of gives you my view on on how much should be spent and that in fact, we're kind of lacking right now in how much we're spending.
