[0:00]at Anthropic, the way that we thought about it is we don't build for the model of today, we build for the model six months from now. That's actually like still my advice to to founders that are building on LLMs. Just try to think about like, what is that frontier where the model is not very good at today? Because it's going to get good at it. All of Quadcode has just been written and rewritten and rewritten and rewritten over and over and over. There is no part of Quadcode that was around six months ago. You try a thing, you give it to users, you talk to users, you learn. And then eventually, you might end up at a good idea, sometimes you don't. Are you also in the back of your mind thinking that maybe like in six months you won't need to prompt that explicitly, that the model will just be good enough to figure it out on its own? Maybe in a month. No more need for plan mode in a month. Oh my God.
[0:46]Welcome to another episode of the Light Cone and today we have an extremely special guest, Boris Cherny, the creator, engineer of Claude Code. Boris, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Thanks for creating a thing that has taken away my sleep for about three weeks straight. I am very addicted to Claude code and it feels like rocket boosters. Has it felt like this for people like for, you know, months at this point? I think it was like end of November is where a lot of my friends said, like, something changed. I remember for me, I felt this way when I first created quadcode and I didn't yet know if I was onto something, I kind of felt like I was onto something. And then that's when I wasn't sleeping. When was this? This was uh September 2024. Yeah, it was like three straight months. I I didn't take a single day of vacation, worked through the weekends, worked every single night. I was just like, oh my God, this is I think this is going to be a thing. I don't know if it's useful yet, because it it couldn't actually code yet. If you look back on uh those moments to now, like what would be like the most surprising thing about this moment right now? It's unbelievable that we're still using a terminal. That was supposed to be the starting point. I didn't think that would be the ending point. And then the second one is that it's even useful because uh, you know, at the beginning, it didn't really write code. Even in February, when we did, he wrote maybe like 10% of my code or something like that. I didn't really use it to write code, it wasn't very good at it. I still wrote most of my code by hand. Uh, so the fact that it it actually like our bets paid off and it got good at the thing that we thought it was going to get good at, because it wasn't obvious. At Anthropic, the way that we thought about it is we don't build for the model of today, we build for the model six months from now. And that's actually like still my advice to to founders that are building on LLMs. Just try to think about like, what is that frontier where the model is not very good at today, because it's going to get good at it, and you just have to wait. Going back to when do you remember when you first got the idea? Can you just talk us through that? Like, was there some like a spark or what was even the first version of it in your mind? You know, it's funny, it was like it was so accidental that it it just kind of evolved into this. Um, you know, as as Anthropic, I think for Anthropic, the bet has been coding for a long time. And the bet has been the path to say to safe AGI is through coding. And this is this is kind of always been the idea. And the way you get there is you you teach the model how to code, then you teach it how to use tools, then you teach it how to use computers. Um, and you can kind of see that because the the first team that I joined at Anthropic, it was called the Anthropic Labs team. Uh, and it produced three products. It was Claude code, MCP, and the desktop app. So you can kind of see how these like weave together. The particular product that we built, you know, like no one no one asked me to build this CLI. Um, we kind of knew maybe it was time to build some kind of coding product, because it seemed like the model was ready. But no one had yet really built the product that harnessed this capability. So like still there's this insane feeling of product overhang, but at the time it was just like even crazier, because like no one had built this yet. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat ops, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off, where you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself. There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we built a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API, because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out. And so I I started like hacking around. And that I was like, okay, we build a coding product. What do I have to do first? I have to understand how to use the API because I hadn't used the Anthropic API at that point. Um, and so I I just built like a little terminal app to use the API. That's that's all that it did. And it was a little chat app because, you know, like you think about the, you know, AI applications at the time and, you know, for non-coders today, most what are most people using is just a chat apps, so that's what I built. Uh, and, you know, like it was in a terminal. I can ask questions, it gave answers. Then I think tool use came out. I just wanted to try out tool use because I I didn't really understand what this is. I was like, tool use, this is cool, is this actually useful? Probably not. Let me just try it. You put it in terminal just because it was the easiest way to get something up and running. Yes, because I didn't have to build a UI. Okay. It was just me. At that point, it was like the IDEs, cursor, Windsurf were the things that were really taking off. Were you sort of under any pressure or getting lots of suggestions of, hey, like we should build this out as a plug-in or as a as a fully featured IDE itself? There was no pressure, because we didn't even know what we wanted to build. Like, the team was just in an explore mode, you know, like we we didn't we know vaguely we wanted to do something in coding, but it wasn't obvious what. No one was high confidence enough. That was like my job to figure it out.
