[0:00]Welcome to the learn psychotherapy podcast presented by Santa University using the emerging science of deliberate practice to make therapists more effective.
[0:09]I'm Benman, your partner on the path to therapeutic mastery. One of the most important common factors is called goal consensus and collaboration.
[0:20]Basically, this means that a therapist and client who work together to identify what outcome or outcomes they want out of therapy are then increasing their chances of getting those desired results.
[0:29]This happens because because collaborative goal setting helps to build a good relationship between the therapist and client. It helps to set consistent expectations for both people and it creates a kind of unique roadmap for where therapy is going.
[0:41]The goal of collaborative goal setting is to work toward the identification of personalized goals that are appropriate for both the client and therapist.
[0:50]And goal setting doesn't just happen once at the start of therapy. While it's important to agree on a clear definition of what successful therapy would look like, goals can also be short-term and they can change over time.
[1:02]Now as the name suggests, the skill of collaborative goal setting is done collaboratively. You're not telling clients what to do, but instead, the goals are set together and then revisited throughout the therapeutic relationship.
[1:14]Equally, setting goals is not always an appropriate skill to use. There are many scenarios in which a client needs different kinds of support before goals can be identified and worked toward.
[1:25]But for this exercise, we're going to practice working toward clear specific goals so that you have the skill ready to use when it feels right.
[1:33]Now, let's talk about the skill criteria. As always, if you're practicing along with the episode, these are the elements of a good response to each client statement. Make sure that this is what you're focusing on.
[1:44]The first skill criteria is to begin with a short response, reflection or validating comment. Criteria two, is to invite the clients input on the goals of therapy.
[1:54]Focusing on goals that are specific and actionable. And you can find the skill criteria in the showcases and on our website at.org.
[2:03]Let's hear a client statement and sample response that meets these criteria.
[2:08]I get panic attacks. I know it's not realistic to get rid of them right away, but I'd really like for them to happen less.
[2:20]Okay, that gives us a good target to keep in mind. Can we say that having fewer panic attacks than you what you've been having, it's one of the goals you'd like us to work towards.
[2:31]So the first part of that response, okay, that gives us a good target to keep in mind. Meets the first skill criteria of beginning with a short response, reflection or validating comment.
[2:40]Then you heard Jen say, can we say that having fewer panic attacks than you've been having is one of the goals first to work toward, which means criteria two of inviting the client's input on the goals of therapy, focusing on goals that are specific and actionable.
[2:56]Okay, let's try the skill of collaborative goal setting. As always, the first segment is a demonstra You can try it yourself or just follow along with Gen as she goes through the exercise.
[3:04]You can also check the show notes for the time stamp of the practice segment if you're ready to skip ahead for some rapid fire or deliberate practice.
[3:12]Now, let's get started.
[3:15]I'm miserable. I don't even know where to begin.
[3:20]Uh sounds like you've been really um down lately. Um what do you think about us uh working towards a specific goal to help you manage um this feeling better.
[3:38]So I'll have you try that again. I think when you say working towards a specific goal, you're on the right track.
[3:45]And then when you say two manage feeling better. That almost implies that that you've already recognized that as a a future goal.
[3:52]But we want to be even more simple with that and just say is feeling better a goal. Let's set a goal together and maybe that's it. Let's try that one more time.
[4:02]I'm miserable. I don't even know where to begin.
[4:07]It sounds like you've been uh feeling down for a while and feeling a little bit lost about how to proceed.
[4:15]Um, would you say that managing these feelings uh is a goal that you like us to work on?
[4:22]That's exactly what we're looking for. You're taking something Carrie said and you're framing it in a way that asks her, is this a goal for therapy that we're going to focus on? together.
[4:32]So it makes the two of you feel like you're on the same page and everything you do in therapy from there is kind of filtered through this collaborative goal that you've set.
[4:39]So great job. and we can go on to number two.
[4:44]I get panic attacks. I know it's not realistic to get rid of them right away, but I'd really like for them to happen less.
[4:52]Um, what I'm hearing from you is that these panic attacks are really um bothering you and disrupting your your day-to-day.
[5:04]And uh, I'm wondering about whether um, reducing the frequency of these panic attacks is uh something you're hoping to work on.
[5:12]Mhm. Yeah, I think that encompasses the same exact thing. You didn't use the word goals, which is completely fine, but when you say is reducing panic attacks, something you want to work on or you're hoping to work on, it encompasses the same thing of having you and carry figure out together is this where we're going in therapy together.
[5:28]So it's a really good job with skill criteria two. And of course, you did a good job with a short response, reflection, validating comment and let's keep going.
[5:42]This is my first time in therapy. I'm pretty nervous about this whole thing.
[5:48]Um, uh, it makes sense that, you know, given your first time in therapy that you're not quite sure what to uh expect.
[5:59]Um, shall we um talk a little bit about what some of the goals that you hope to get out of from therapy.
[6:06]Yep, that was really great and I liked how with skill criteria one, you mixed it up a bit so that wasn't so much like an empathetic reflection, you validate it that yes, of course it's normal to feel this way your first time in therapy.
[6:18]And you did a good job asking about what are the goals that you'd like to set. Um, let's keep going.
[6:24]Social anxiety is the worst. I went to a party last weekend and ended up leaving after a half hour because Nobody was talking to me and I felt so awkward.
[6:36]Um, um, I hear the frustration that you have um when when you kind of get into these social situations and you're not quite sure how to behave around the people around you.
[6:50]Um would you say that being more comfortable in the social settings is a goal that you want to work on?
[6:58]Again, really great response. You took something that said and you reframed it in a way that was asking her, is this a goal that you want to work on in therapy so that she can say yes or no?
[7:10]And the two of you can continue working together in a way that make sure you're kind of on the same page. So you're doing great so far and we can uh go to statement number five.
[7:19]My trauma gets in the way of all my relationships. Every time I get close to somebody, there's this alarm that starts ringing in my head and tells me to run away.
[7:30]Um, you know, I hear the I hear the um the sadness and the frustration that you have um because your trauma is um affecting the way you relate to people um even till today.
[7:46]Um, I'm wondering if um managing um these these traumatic symptoms is uh something that you are looking to you're hoping to work towards in therapy.
[8:02]Yeah, I think that that felt good. Um, asking is managing these these symptoms something that you're hoping to work toward is that same kind of question that invites Carrie to say, like, yes, this is what I'd like to do in therapy or no this is not or anywhere in between.
[8:20]But it definitely meets skill criteria too of inviting her input on the goals of therapy. Um, and it does focus on goals that are specific and actionable because you asked her about the trauma specifically, not just what do you want to get out of therapy, which I think often times doesn't lead to anything specific moving forward.
[8:38]Um, good job. And let's keep going.
[8:41]My anger is so much better than when we started. Can we focus on something else?
[8:47]Um, uh, I hear that you feel um, pretty good and pretty optimistic about how you're managing your anger now.
[8:56]Uh, I'm wondering about um, whether there are specific um goals that you hope to work on together in therapy.
[9:03]Again, perfect. I love the way that you said specific when you were asking about the goals because you're really encouraging Carrie to identify what she wants to get out of therapy that you can then work on together.
[9:15]Um, you certainly met criteria one and the only thing I'll point out because I think you're doing a great job so far is you may remember this from the last episode we did.
[9:23]You would begin a lot of your responses with I hear that. And so while you're still meeting criteria one, I'll just challenge you because you're doing well so far.
[9:30]to find different ways to start your responses to carry just to get some practice um beginning those responses differently. So let's keep. I'm going.
[9:43]Am I doing six again? Uh, seven, please. Seven, okay.
[9:48]I make a decent living, but I never have any money. I just spend it all. and then I feel worthless.
[9:57]I sense the frustration that you feel towards yourself about the way you manage money.
[10:07]Um, and you know how do you feel about us looking at um your feelings about money as a goal as we move forward.
[10:18]Yeah, I think that that felt good. I think at the end talking about um what what are we focusing on and working toward it kinda gives it that longer picture frame where you're saying what is the goal that we're going to be kind of organizing our sessions around going forward and you did a good job reflecting back uh career's feelings of wanting it to be a bit more organic. Um, so I think that met both skill criteria and we can go on to the last two statements.
[10:25]I know you asked me to think about what I wanted to get out of therapy and let you know. There are a million different things. I didn't write anything down because I have no idea where to begin.
[10:33]I know it can feel overwhelming to set concrete goals in therapy. Maybe we should use that to guide us.
[10:44]Let's work on helping you prioritize what you most important. What do you think?
[10:48]Do you even care about my goals or is that just what your supervisor wants you to ask me about?
[10:59]I do care, but it sounds like that's something that you're not sure about. I want you to feel like I'm actually focusing on you, not just doing what I'm told.
[11:08]Can this be a goal of hours to talk about this and see if you can get a sense of resolution?
[11:15]Thanks for listening to the Learn Psycho therapy podcast presented by Sanio University. Visit us at Centro.org for lots of free resources including downloadable skill criteria, client statements and sample responses. Our guest therapist for this season is Jen Ang, Caroline Weida is our mock client/actor and residence and the video editor is for you. channel, our Amy D Smith and Alex Fox. We'll see you next episode.
