[0:00]What is habituation? It's basically our tendency to respond less and less and less to things that are constant or that change very gradually or frequency. So for example, an easy example, you jump into a pool, it's really cold, but you tend to get used to it. After a few minutes, it's less cold. Why are people less happy in midlife? It is the least amount of change, right? If you think about it, as when you're a kid, things are changing all the time. I mean, you're changing, you're growing, right? You're learning. Then you're in the 20s. You're trying different things, you're trying different parts. You're trying different professions. And then comes midlife and things are kind of similar. Most people kind of stay in the same place. You literally just explain the midlife crisis through the lens of neuroscience.
[0:45]Hey, it's your friend Mel. I am so glad you're here with me today. It is always such an honor to spend some time together and I want to start by acknowledging you for taking the time to listen to something that is going to help you create a better life and I know our conversation today is going to do that. If you're a new listener, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast family. I'm so happy you're here with me. And you're not going to believe what I did last night. I mean, just take a guess. What do you think I did last night? You're never going to guess this one. Well, last night, my husband, Chris and I pitched a tent in our backyard. We grabbed a blow-up mattress, a couple of comforters, two pillows, and we slept out under the stars in our backyard here in Vermont. It was a full moon. It was absolutely incredible. And we used to do this kind of stuff all the time when we were first dating. I mean, we were constantly planning fun adventures and camping and like doing cool things outside and you know, we've been married now. My god, it's going to be 28 years this year. Holy smokes. Well, in the other day, Chris turned to me and said, "Hey Mel, you know, in a couple nights it's going to be a full moon. Weather looks good. You have any interest in sleeping outside in a tent?" I was like, oh my god, yes! And so we did. Here I was this morning. Uh after sleeping in the tent last night, I was having my coffee in the house and if you're watching, you can probably tell based on the fact that I've greasy hair, I've pulled it back in a pony tail and I'm wearing my red flannel that I look like I was camping because I was. Because I was. Um, but here I am, you know, we're out of the tent, I'm standing in my kitchen. I got my mug of coffee in my hand and I started to wonder, that was so fun. When did life get boring? Why don't I do this more often? And then it don't me. Mel, maybe life isn't boring. Maybe you've gotten boring. I want you to really think about that. Maybe the reason why you're not having enough fun in your life or your relationship or work is because you've gotten a little too used to your routine. And that's made you a little boring. Well, today, that's what you and I are going to talk about with a neuroscientist from MIT and University College, London, who says, "Habits and routines have a hidden cost. They can make your life feel boring and she's here to tell you what to do about it. There are really fun ways that you can shake up your life, your work, your relationships, and even a really fun thing that research says you need to do to shake up your vacation. Aren't you so excited for this? I know you are. And so I'm thrilled that you're here with me on you YouTube and here's where we're going next. We are going to go down to our studios in Boston for this incredible conversation. Are you ready to shake it up? Awesome. Let's do it. Welcome Dr. Shannon to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm so thrilled that you are here. I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. So Dr. Shannon, you have uncovered this link between change and experiencing happiness and joy in your life. And so many of us fear change and yet what you're finding is that our ability to change and pushing ourselves to change and experiencing new things in our life is foundational to you enjoying your life and having moments of joy. And so you've been researching something called habituation which is a phenomenon that our brain naturally does.
[4:22]And it's also going to help us understand why pushing yourself to change and grow and learn new things is a critical part of your life and you enjoying your life. So can you tell us about habituation? So habituation, it's really a fundamental process, our fundamental rule that governs how our brain works and every neuron in it. Um and it's basically our tendency to respond less and less and less to things that are constant or that change very gradually or a frequent. So for example, an easy example, you walk into a bakery, there's like the smell of the big goods and the cake and studies show that within 20 minutes, you cannot detect the smell any longer. The olfaction nerves in your brain stop responding because the smell is constant around you, right? So very fast, they will actually stop and you won't be able to smell. You probably have this um with with perfume, right? When you first buy perfume and you put it on really saliant, next day a little bit less, for a little bit less, a month goes by and you can't smell your own perfume. Um It's so true. Yeah, so that's habitation or you jump into a pool if It's really cold, but you tend to get used to it. After a few minutes, it's less cold, right? And so just as you habituate to smells or to temperature, you also habituate to more complicated things in your life or in society. Um, so for example, you get used to there's a new romance, right? It's really exciting, but over time it gets a little less exciting, right? So you have less of a reaction, less of a physiological reaction, less of an emotional reaction. But you also get used to the that stuff, break up, right? You get used to that. There's less of reaction to that. Um you get used to the view of the ocean and you get used to pollution too. Meaning you less you're able to detect it less, you're able to see it even less. Um, you get used to a new job to a promotion, you react to that less, you habituate to that, you can habituate also to losing a job. Um, and so because of habituation, we might have some great things in our life like a loving relationship or comfortable home or interesting job, but they don't elicit as much joy on a daily basis as you'd expect them to. Just because you're used to it? Right. Right? You don't notice them anymore, right? You could have a wonderful comfortable home which when you first bought it, you were so excited and you kind of like really kind of noticed everything. But now you're there every day, right? So it doesn't list as much of a reaction. Um, the same thing with the job. When you first got the job, you're like, oh, you're just amazed. you could do what you could do. But now you're doing it every day, you're doing it right. So it has less. It doesn't mean that people don't appreciate it all, but less so over time. And it's a similar thing for the bad stuff in life. So, um there could be bad things around us, societal things like sexism or racism or could be cracks in your personal relationships or in efficiencies in the workplace. But if they've been there for a long time, we stop noticing them. We just kind of get used to them and we stop and if we stop noticing them, we're that's motivated to change. So, how does this impact our happiness? Cuz it seems like it could have good and bad implications and I think it's really interesting that your brain itself is reacting to something that you're getting used to. So it's not like you're some sort of jerk that's just zoning out. It's that your brain in your words, this is habitation that you're becoming really familiar with your partner or with where you work or your neighborhood.
[8:02]So how does this impact our happiness? Well, it means that the good things around us can create less happiness right on a daily basis. So the stuff that's really good and everyone has some good, you know, stuff around us again, it could be a relationship, um, it could be comfortable home, but those things don't elicit as much happiness. So that has a negative impact on our happiness. Right? Um, however, you know, on the flip side if something bad happens, even if it's really, really bad, a loss of a loved one, you know, we habituate to that as well. To the bad stuff in life, we habituate and you could be a good thing because we don't want to feel like a break up, right? We don't want to feel that pain that you feel at the very beginning, you want to habituate, right? So then you can move forward. So that's good. That's very good. Um but on the other hand, there could be some bad things that have been there for a long time and they're kind of like in the background. And because of habituation, we don't really notice them. And that's not great because then we are not motivated to change and it, you know, it turns out if you do notice and you try to change and you're successful, well, that will enhance your well-being and your happiness.
[9:16]Well, I think that's what the thing that's super cool about your research is that there is a direct connection between the happiness and joy that you feel and the amount that you're willing to train, change. And what is happening in your brain when you experience something new? Right. So really, you know, our brain you can think about it as a front page of a newspaper. It cares about what's new. What just happened. It doesn't really care that much about the old. And it makes sense, you know, if you think about it, like in an evolution kind of way and in, you know, your ability to adapt. Um, when something new is happening, your brain needs to process because maybe you need to react, right? Maybe it's like threatening. But after, you know, it's been there for a while and you're fine, well, we really need to keep our resources. You know, the neurons need to be ready for the next new thing that's coming. So we're ready to react to that. And so new is what we are noticing the most and what we're acting to the most. And just to give you kind of like a fun example. Yeah. Um, I was working with a tourism company where they wanted to know what makes people happiest on vacation and when they're happiest on vacation. So we went to the resorts and we surveyed people and we asked them, um, hey, what was the best bit of the vacation? And there was one words that that they repeated more than any other word and it was first. The first view of the ocean. The first cocktail that I had, the first sun castle that I built, right? The first was new and exciting. Now, the second view of the ocean, that was good too, but it wasn't quite as good as the first, right? And the second cocktail, fifth cocktail was quite good, but it wasn't good as the first cocktail. Um, and that's because of habituation, right? We feel less. And the other interesting thing was when we just looked at the data and we wanted to see when were they the happiest. We found that they were happiest 43 hours into a vacation. So 43 hours gave you time to unpacked and really focus on the fun. But from that point on, fun started dwing, right, over time. Because we habituated. You were still happy on day 8, 7, 6 and 5, but not as happy as you were 43 hours in, right? Because you have started to habituate to the environment, to the activity. So how do we apply this research around vacations to our own life? So I think it suggests that maybe we want to have more frequent vacations, but shorter ones, right? So instead of going away for a couple of weeks, you might actually go for a long weekend a few times. Now, sometimes it's not possible if you're going far, but what that means is you will have more of those 43-hour peaks. You will have more of those first. And you know what else you will have? You will have the anticipation of the vacation. because this is what I didn't tell you. I told you that the happiest time is 43 hours into the vacation. Yeah. But I didn't actually tell you that the really, really happiest time is a day before vacation. So there is a study that was conducted where people who were about to go on vacation were asked every day of the week before vacation, how happy they were. Every day of the vacation for a week how happy they were and then every day of vacation of the when they came back after vacation how happy they were. And it turns out that the people are happiest before they even step on the plane. So the day before vacation, they're still in their office, working on their computers. But in their mind, they're on vacation and in their mind, it's quite wonderful. When they go on vacation, it is good, but it's not as good as it was in their mind the day before. The anticipation of good things is what really makes people happy. So if you have more vacations, you have more of those anticipations and you have more of the afterglow as well. Well, you know what, there's huge implications if you take this even out of the context of vacations and you just say, what are things that I look forward to? Right. Whether it's a date on the calendar, eight months from now where I'm going to get together with my favorite family members. Or it is, uh, some day that I'm taking off of work to take a class.
[13:17]Or it is some cool thing like I'm going, sounds kind of dumb, but I'm going on a uh, a walk this weekend with my husband and it is a guided walk looking for owls. This must mean I'm in my 50s, but I am so excited for this thing. And so I can see how even just being proactive about putting things in your calendar out in the future to look forward to is a way to hack happiness in your life now. Absolutely. I call these anticipatory events, right? These are events that we have in our calendar. They haven't happened yet, but they're making you happy at the moment. And in fact, this is why when you ask people about which days, which is the favorite day of the week, um people prefer Friday by far more than Sunday. Because Friday brings with us the anticipation of everything that they had planned for the weekend, whether it is, you know, a hike to to find owls or whatever it is, right? But Sunday, you might be out hiking and looking for owls, but you have the anxiety of the work week. So, um indeed, anticipation, um is something that's really, really important. And so have that holiday book, have that activity book. It can be, you know, a night out, um, it could be um, a hike, very simple things, right? And that makes us happy at the moment. What's so interesting about this research that I really like is that you got no choice in this. Like your brain is literally filing away information based on your familiarity with it.
[15:00]And so what is the implication for your relationship? Because as I'm sitting here listening to you talk about the research on vacation, which I think we can all relate to, I'm also thinking, oh, well, probably right around day 43 or week 43 is your dating somebody and you're wondering, why is this person no longer being proactive? Why is this person no longer seeming to make an effort? Why is this no longer feeling as exciting? Is that habituation? Yeah, so habituation has a lot to do with this, right? And in fact, so if you listen to Esther Perrell, you know, well-known relationship expert. Um, she did surveys and research where she asked people, hey, when were you most attracted to your partner? Um, these are people who have been together for a while, married couples. Um, and she found that they said two things. Either they said, I was more most attracted to my partner when I went away and came back. Maybe I was like on a business trip. I was away for a weekend and I came back, right? Which makes perfect sense because what you're doing when you're leaving a situation and then coming in back is your dishabitating. What does dishabitating mean? It means that you remove that thing, right? You you stepped out of the bakery for 10 minutes. Now you're coming back, now your norrance is going to start responding. Maybe not as as much as a very, very first that when you entered the bakery, but if there's a large enough break, then you dishabitate and you start responding, right? And that's the first thing she found. We have actually so on the cover of our book if you open it up, there's a little visual illusion which is um colors, clouds of colors and a fixation point in the middle. Right. And if you fixate on that fixation point and you don't move your eyes at all, what happens is the colors suddenly become gray. And if you do it really, really well, actually it just becomes white. And why does that happen? Because the input to every specific neuron, if you're not moving your eyes, doesn't change. It's the same, right? The same colors are getting to the same exact neurons and so the neurons at the beginning they're like active. You're like color, color, color. And they're like, well colors not changing, I'm going to stop responding. So now it's gray and finally it's white. All you need to do is move your eyes like that, just move them for a second and then the color immediately comes back because now different neurons are getting different signals and now they're reacting again. Okay, so we're putting this up on the screen for everyone who's watching on YouTube right now. And you're going to start by simply staring at the black plus sign in the middle of the page. And Dr. told said we got to do it for 30 seconds. And just try to focus only on the black plus sign. And as you stare at the black plus sign, you're going to notice that the color fades away. It's crazy. But the second that you kind of adjust your eyes and look away for a second from the black, all the color comes rushing back. So I want you to keep watching it right now and see what happens. Just look at the black plus sign. Just a couple more seconds. Holy cow. That's crazy. So basically that's habituation. When you stare at your spouse or your work or your life for too long, it goes gray. And that's why you got to shake things up to bring all the shimmer and the color back. So cool. So that's dis habitation, right? Gotcha. That kind of same principle. Of course, like the the actual neural mechanism is not exactly the same, but the principle is the same. Your partner has been there for a while, everything's the same. We we kind of like don't notice, don't respond, don't think. We leave for a bit, we come back and now colors, right? So that's the first thing she found. And the second thing is related, which she found that people say they're most attracted to the partner when they're in a novel new situation. For example, the partner is talking to some strangers, or the partner is on the stage doing something, right? Um, and again, this is a form of dis habituation. You're seeing your partner in a different way because they are in a different circumstances. So now, it's not the same old, same old, right? Yeah. It's something new. When does habituation pose the biggest, I think, threat to upsetting what might be like otherwise like a nice life because I could see how you getting used to your neighborhood. You getting used to your I'll just take the example of a kitchen. Your kitchen's perfectly fine. And yet you probably spend a lot of time on social media, looking at kitchens and thinking about a kitchen renovation. And then you walk into another person's house and you're like, oh, we should have a coffee bar, we should do what if I did white cabinets and now of a sudden you're looking at your kitchen, which has been perfectly fine and you no longer like it, you kind of hate it. And so does habituation make you start to reject or not like the things in your life from relationships to your job, to your neighborhood, to your kitchen? Is that part of the problem with this if you don't realize it's going on? Yeah, because it brings you less joy.
[20:18]Um, and as a result, you want something different, right? And I think your example is great because there's two things here. One is it's something that you had before, which you thought was fantastic. The kitchen. You thought was fantastic before, but now is not that exciting. not that fun. And also the other thing that nice that you said is like, well I go to another person's house, I think their kitchen is great. And they probably come to yours and for them you they think like, oh, the kitchen is great or they think like, oh, she has like a wonderful life. She has like and it's potentially the case that you have the same thing, right? But you've had it the same for a while. Yes. Um, and that's why kind of we're looking for, you know, diversity or new things. And it's not all all bad, right? I mean, again, it's like two sides of the coin. Um, okay, maybe we don't need to like redo our kitchen every couple of years. Um, but you know, that kind of need to progress, right? That's not necessarily just a bad thing. That mean that keeps us moving forward. Yes. Um, but it's like a delicate balance. How do you how do you balance it? Because I can think about an example where, you know, we all are chasing the next greatest thing. Right? We're chasing something that looks better, something that's going to be this and we're kind of going after that newness thrill. And it's very clear that there's both the need to change, but there's also the fact that constantly chasing it and using an example of what, oh, well, they're they're, uh, significant other does a lot of that and my partner doesn't do that anymore.
[21:53]Is it making us unhappy to constantly seek the change or how do you balance it? Um, yeah, so I mean, it is definitely a balance, which is why I think it's important to kind of think about how do we get some joy back from what we have, right? Um, and there's two ways to do that, right? And one and we kind of like one of the ways is what we talked about, which is like a little break, right? Um, you probably notice that if you go on, um, a work thing for a couple of days or maybe even more, maybe three days or a week. And when you come back, it seems like everything has resparkled, right? Even your kitchen. Yeah. I'd imagine that if you're away for enough time, you come back and the kitchen has resparkled, right? It's suddenly does look great. So is Chris. And I think he looks at Chris, he's like, you're not so bad after all. And the home and everything else. Um, it's it's definitely something that that happens. In fact, we stole the the word resparkled for from, uh, Julia Roberts. So she has, um, a quote where she says that her normal day is like she gets up, she takes the kids to school, she comes back, she maybe goes on a bike ride, maybe with her husband, she has lunch, then it's time to pick them up and take them to their after school activities, and she says, well, if I've done that, every day, you know, for months and months and months, it would just be boring, but I don't because I go away, you know, to film or whatever she does, and then she comes back and then it has resparkled, right? Sparkling everything seems like she says, it seems like there's pixie dust on it. Yes. Um, and you can say well, Julia Roberts is not the average human being, right? She's quite a privileged person, but I think she's talking here about something that we can relate to. Which is if you take a little break and you come up come back, then your life looks a little bit different, right? You dis habituate to some degree. It doesn't maybe it doesn't last very long, but you can see things a little bit differently. Maybe more realistically. Do you have recommendations for how a person who's not leaving to go film a movie could do that if they're in a job that they go to all the time and they are in just this cycle of same person, same job, same, you know, neighborhood, same group of friends. How do you use this research to resparkle some pixie dust on your life? Right. So two things. First is you could probably take a break. Okay. To most people, they could still take a little break. You could still go away for a few days and come back. Now, let's say you can't do that. Um, Lori Santos, um, who is a professor at Yale, suggests, uh, closing your eyes and imagining your life without these things, right? Imagine your life without that wonderful kitchen. Imagine your life without the partner, without the job that you have, right? And then when you open your eyes again, well, things kind of sparkle a little bit, right? So that's that's like a a good little kind of exercise to do. I actually like that because I think the instinct is instead of closing your eyes and imagining your life without the person you're complaining about. Or without the kitchen that you have that is great and works fine, and without, you know, the neighborhood you live in. That we instead look out instead of in and we go, oh, well, I like the way that relationship over there works better and I like the way that kitchen over there looks better. And then you bring it back to your life and pound on the people that are there instead of taking a step to close your eyes and go, well, what would my life look like if they weren't here? Now, obviously, if you're happy, then you got to make some changes, but if you feel that little ache, then what do you do? Right. You just open your eyes and sprinkle a little fairy dust on them. Um, and um, I love to end my interviews with brilliant people like you by giving you an opportunity to just talk directly to the person that is listening.
[26:08]They might be driving a car or unloading the dishwasher or taking you on a walk with them. And I would love to give you the opportunity to just, uh, give them any parting words or some sort of message from you. Sure. So we end, um, our the book that that I wrote together with my co-author cast saying we end that with a chapter that's called experiments in living. Okay. So my parting words is experiment in living. Um, and the idea here is that you don't really know what's good for your life or for society without doing experiments. Just like in science, I don't know what the ground truth is until I do my experiments and sometimes it's surprising. Um, and so the idea is that if you do these experiments in living, try things in in different ways, try them in new ways. It could be you're actually taking out some stuff from your life, right? Try to maybe see what happens if you go off social media for a few weeks, right? See how that impacts you. Maybe you like it, maybe you don't like it, right? Or maybe it's adding something to your life. Um, experiments and living allows you to try, you know, everything or not everything, but like, you know, more things to find out what are the optimal things for me and what doesn't really work. I love it. Well, Dr. thank you so much for being here. And I also wanted to thank you for spending time with us today. And in case nobody tells you, I wanted to tell you that I love you. I believe in you and I believe in your ability to not only create a better life, but to take Dr. Sherritt's words to heart. Alrighty. I'll talk to you in a few days. I am so glad that you got to watch that conversation. Aren't you ready to shake things up? You're going to go camping tonight? It was so amazing on how small changes are vital for your happiness. And if you love this episode, which of course you did, you are going to love what I'm going to tell you to watch next. But first, please hit subscribe and let me tell you why. It is how you can tell me that you really loved this episode. And second, it supports me in bringing you world class experts and new videos every single day. Okay, awesome. Thanks for subscribing. I really, really, really appreciate. I'm feeling you shaking things up over there. And since you love this up you're going to love this first episode that I did with Dr. Tyler Shannon where we talk about what you have wrong about motivation and how you can really motivate someone else or yourself to change any behavior. Check it out.
