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[1:43]On this historic day, it's fitting because I want to introduce you to another group of media producers, teen podcasters. Just like how you might tune into this very show multiple times a week, well, there's a whole ecosystem of podcasts for teenagers, by teenagers. Want kid cuisine and fast food reviews? There's MD Foodie Boys. Favorite home cooked meal boys. Hey boys. Emmett's dad's pip. I heard your I heard your mom makes a mean pizza. Yeah. Bible quotes and fitness tips, there's Salty Boys. Davon's going into the Marines. What about the says right? on Sunday. Three days. If co-ed truth or dare is more your flair, there's the LOL podcast. Who would cheat? Who's most likely to cheat? Who's most likely to cheat? Yes. What's the definition? Answer the question. In three, cheating in a board game? No, who's most likely to cheat? Just in everything. And yes, I know most of you listening are not teenagers, but I am bringing this up today because this media ecosystem is incredibly influential. It's not lost on me that a figure like Charlie Kirk began his political influence as a teenager and built out his political platform by first speaking to young people. 47% of Gen Z are monthly podcast listeners, and 53% of Gen Z podcast listeners every month are boys. That's Jordan Marie Smith, producer for NPR's All Things Considered. And when you break down into the ethnicity of Gen Z monthly podcast listeners, they are overwhelmingly white. The total monthly podcast listeners for ages 13 to 24 age range, 63% white, 15% black or African-American. And even less, 14% Hispanic and Latino. More broadly, it feels like we're going through a major cultural shift. A movement away from children should be seen and not heard towards a media system that believes children should actually have a voice in the public sphere. So, you and I are sitting down with Jordan Marie and EJ Dixon, senior writer for the cut to figure out, what does it all mean for all of us that young people are picking up the microphone and what is it that they want to say?
[4:13]Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luse and you're listening to it's been a minute from NPR. A show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.
[4:30]EJ, please talk to me about like, about a little more deeply about who these kids are. You looked into some of the most prominent, um, I guess boyosphere, Kitasphere, podcasters. I like boysphere. I like boyosphere. I think boyosphere is good. I'm kinda jealous I didn't come out myself. The piece was really inspired by, um, this one particular group of boys who have a podcast and they're called the MD Foodie Boys and they really started blowing up. Like MD is in Maryland. Maryland, yes, they're from Harford County, Maryland. Gotcha. Um, and they really started blowing up late last year, and the thing that was really striking to me is how unbelievably mundane it is. Literally, like, they will go on the air and they will talk about whether they prefer butter or salt on their popcorn, or what their favorite topping of pizza is, or, uh, what their favorite cafeteria food item is, and it was getting thousands of views and it was mostly from adults, weirdly. I think that part of the entertainment value was how wholesome it is.
[5:46]You know, like usually, usually when you think of like young adult males having a podcast, you think of the bro space, like the Barstool Sports types. You think they'd be kind of trying to emulate that kind of Dave Portnoy, Joe Rogan type of thing. As opposed to like having conversations that like are really close to the conversations that I have with my niece. What's your favorite animal? What food do you like to eat? Like, yeah, actually, we should be thinking about these. Exactly, and the MD foodie boys are staunchly apolitical. You you tune in for their thoughts on pizza toppings and that is what you get. But the thing that I find really interesting about their content is even though topic wise they are not influenced, you know, clearly influenced by like Barstool or Theo von or Rogan or any of those other really popular male driven podcasts, aesthetically they very much are. Interesting. Yeah, and they and they told me this, that part of their inspiration for starting this podcast was was Dave Portnoy. And Barstool, their big Barstool fans. And I think that really goes to Jordan's point in terms of the demographics and how this breaks down. If the most popular podcasts in America are led by straight white men, and the majority of the Gen Z listeners are boys, like it makes sense that they would sort of try to fashion themselves after these people. So we have the MD foodie boys, but I also know that there are other kinds of podcasts that young people are making. Jordan Marie, you you spoke to me about like the, the Patriot kids. Well, they're called GSD Nation. GSD Nation, which stands for. Okay, so the whole thing about GSD Nation, or get shit done Nation, is that this is a little company started by Matt Morstad, who is a founder. He is a grown man. He's the dad of one of the hosts, is that right? Both, both of the hosts. Both of the hosts. Oh, so this is like a father-son activity. Okay. This is a father-son activity, yeah. So Matt Morstad is the founder of GSD Nation and he is the father of Will Morstad and also Max Morstad. And they all have a podcast that in and of itself leans a bit right. It's, um, called The Programming Lions podcast. It's basically like this grown man talking about patriotic or what people would call like, I would say pretty right-leaning nationalistic viewpoints with his two tweens. They are focused very much on culture war topics, like, um, they'll weigh in on pronouns or the Gulf of Mexico being renamed to the Gulf of America or Trump's tariffs. I think when I talked to them, they were 11 and 13 if I recall correctly. It's very much not the type of content that you would expect to see 11 and 13-year-old boys talking about. And often, they sort of frame it as it's as like a debate, you know, kind of similar, like very clearly inspired by Charlie Kirk's content actually. Uh, where they will recruit teens or twins who have progressive views and they'll debate a given topic with with these two kids, these two conservative. Okay, that, that kind of reminded me of like the Jubilee of it all. It's not surprising, I guess, that, um, that these kids would kind of mimic that same kind of content, but I wonder like, what gap are these youth podcasters actually filling? Well, that's interesting because according to Edison, 84% of young podcast listeners tune into dig deeper into topics. But Gen Z listeners to podcasts want to hear specifically unique perspectives that are not covered in other media, and they want to hear it on YouTube.
[9:40]So, these Gen Z podcast hosts that are predominantly young and white and men or boys are publishing in a way that reaches those kids first. It reaches that same demographic first. I think what really drew me to this topic is that they are filling a space where they're making their own content for themselves for people like them. For kids, by kids. For kids, by kids. Interesting. For instance, you have the LOL podcast featuring, let me get this right, Cash Maverick Kate Harper Kensy. Five different kids on the same podcast. Yeah, five five teens, five teens on one podcast. Okay. But the thing about the LOL podcast is that they are incredibly popular. They are three girls, two boys, new videos, Wednesdays and Saturdays. And they focus on like, if you're going to get plastic surgery, or what's the worst thing you've ever done, or more so, uh, who's dating who in the group and, uh, fitness and all of these other things. Interesting. Okay, so, so it's clear that there's an appetite at least from young people it seems for for content that feels like it's being aimed at them, but also being made by them. And so I can understand why that would be popular, but I mean, this is not just about like their ability to connect with people their own age. I mean, some of these podcasts are getting like brand deals, like very adult money, brand deals. Uh, such as like Buffalo Wild Wings partnering with with Foodie Boys and having them try ranch dressing. Um, like EJ, you you've spoken to executives who have partnered with children and their adult representatives to make these podcasts. not just popular, but lucrative. What did you hear from them about the financial prospects of these shows, both for the creators and for brands? So, it's definitely a burgeoning industry, but I think that they are correctly assessing that there's a lot of money in it. Um, I spoke to an executive at Cockatwatch, which is the children's content company behind Ryan's World and Love Diana and Gem Sisters and a bunch of other kitty content creators. And they have started really investing in the narrative podcast space, which which is a little bit different, right? It's not just like low budget, like a bunch of twins sitting around a mic talking about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Huh, interesting. Okay, so the other thing I'm thinking about though, advertising executives, you know, they're saying that they want kids to have a seat at the table. And I think that that sounds like well-meaning, um, you know, but I can imagine many people looking at this and seeing it as yet another way for children to be kind of indoctrinated to a certain degree. Like whether it's into a certain political ideology or or into brand loyalty. I mean, what do you make of this, EJ? Well, my concern is less with whether children are going to be susceptible to advertising because obviously they are incredibly susceptible to advertising and it's a major problem, especially on YouTube. I mean, that's a general problem. You know, like that's that's not specific to these podcasts. My my concern is more as a parent, what does it mean that we are elevating these very, very young content creators and putting them on camera and having them produce tons of content like on a weekly basis? It's like a child star thing again. Yeah, what what effect is that having on our kids? Like, that's that's my primary concern as a parent, like what effect is this having on kids to sort of expect to be growing up in the public eye? Like this is normalized for them. And also like they're going to have opinions probably that they're going to regret having five years later and and they're going to have very mixed feelings about like their parents putting them on camera. So I think that's probably my primary concern with these podcasts, particularly for the ones that skew more political or controversial. But that's something that, you know, I'm I'm thinking about regarding all types of content that's featuring Kid creators. Coming up. People aren't critically thinking about what it actually takes to form your own opinion about something in a way that is nascent to your interest, your goals, and your own insight. Stay with us.
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[15:48]But I wonder what is motivating children to get into political podcasting? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say. Um, I spoke to Matt Morstad and I there are a lot of people in the comments who basically react to this like rage bait, who are basically like, oh, you're indoctrinating your kids. Like, you're exploiting your kids and and filling their heads with political views that they don't necessarily agree with or believe. Basically, he said, my kids could either be watching this content, consuming this content at home passively, or they could be actively making it. Like, they could be learning how to edit, they could be learning how to think critically. They could be learning marketing skills and how to push out a product. And we can discuss whether or not 11 to 13-year-olds should be learning that, but that's a fair point. That is really interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way. I mean, now I think about one of my cousins who's an adult now, but I remember when he was a baby, he would make like silly little videos and stuff like that. And in the process, learned how to like film and edit and take pictures and, um, and it gave him skills, confidence, allowed him to try to be creative. He wasn't making youth podcasting videos, but the scale is quite different. The scale and the public nature of it and also the, the possibility for, you know, for making in real profits that does kind of change things. It kind of feels to me like the difference between doing local community theater versus relocating your family to Orlando to get them on a Nickelodeon show. Like there's levels. Like there's levels. There's levels to this and just to talk about the data behind this, um, as of today, via the podcast index, there are 4,590,715 podcasts in the world. in the world. Okay, that's good. I guess, yeah, okay. They're out there and also it's highly highly lucrative. The podcast industry is certainly growing. It's estimated to be worth $17.59 billion by 2030. That's just in a few years. The podcast industry is very big and if people want to get in on that, I mean, I also see this as a chance for younger people to get into this. It makes me think that Matt Morstad might actually be doing something where he's, he's sort of thinking like, hey, as EJ said, if other people are doing it, and they're subjecting my kids to this, why can't my kids just be creators in it and dictate it? You know, I, it's interesting. It's like there've been children as a part of political movements throughout history, like, you know, the kids that mobilized after the Parkland shooting and Greta Thunberg. Yeah, Greta Thunberg. I mean, or kids who organized protests during the civil rights movement, you know, children in Gaza who are using social media to advocate for their own safety. Um, you know, just amidst the atrocities that they face every single day, like I, I think that, um, it's not necessarily that there is like an age minimum or something like that to engage politically. But getting engaged politically does feel somewhat different than starting a podcast, um, to like share your thoughts and opinions. Although that can create a certain type of influence that can eventually lead to action. These are voices that can affect change and I I mean, I would personally like to see more young people who I agree with out there, um, saying these things. Uh, but I don't think it's necessarily inherently a bad thing. I just don't. I think it's going to become increasingly commercialized, but I also think that there's the prospect for a lot of really exciting left-wing political voices to come out of it. So, I think it's going to be a double-edged sword for sure. Zooming out, I remember a concerted effort to teach children media literacy in the late 90s, when I was a kid. I I remember learning about the food stylist that made fast food look appealing in commercials or the photo editors that airbrush models to look thinner than they actually were. Like basically, these media literacy initiatives were pulling back the curtain and showing how ads are selling falsehoods, or or media in general is often selling falsehoods, in order to make money off of their audience. And I wonder, like, when as we're discussing this new crop of like youth content creators, who are sharing their thoughts, their opinions, their point of view. I wonder what is media literacy look like for youth in this new podcasting era, where some of the messaging and and and the perspective is is being determined by their peers. Media literacy for youth and how it's being formed is about as treacherous as it is for grown adults. Because we are so besotten with algorithms and we're so beside ourselves with too much information that media literacy is not making a comeback. It's actually quite unfortunate because we're so fraught with not being able to choose the algorithms that choose us that it kind of makes it hard to feel like we can break out of actually thinking the way that algorithms want us to model our opinions after. And people aren't critically thinking about what it actually takes to form your own opinion about something in a way that is nascent to your interest, your goals, and your own insight. I agree with Jordan Marie. I think the information ecosystem is equally as fraught for kids as it is for adults, except there are the higher stakes of the fact that kids do not fully formed brands. You know. And kids are not getting their information from like vetted journalistic sources. They're getting their information from Instagram memes that their friends share on their stories. They're getting information from Tik Tok videos, which is Jordan Marie pointed out, basically give you this ongoing self-perpetuating loop of things that you're already inclined to engage with and agree with. It's probably the thing that I'm most concerned about as a parent.
[22:37]And I feel like media literacy was more discussed when I was a kid than is being discussed now. And that astonishes me. Like, I just, I don't understand how it's not a basic component of elementary school, even, like middle school, high school, that you're not going into a classroom and hearing like, listen, like all of the things that you're seeing is fake. It's not something that people focus on and I think that's really a shame, and especially with the rise of AI, we're going to see the consequences of that. Well, I have to say, it has been really something to unpack this, I guess, most recent era of what seems to be shaping up to be possible child stardom with the two of you. Um, thank you both so much for this conversation. I, I learned a lot. Thank you for having me, Britney. Thank you so much for having me. That was Jordan Marie Smith, producer for NPR's All Things Considered, and EJ Dixon, senior writer for the cut. You can read her piece on youth podcasters titled, The only men allowed to podcast are tween boys on thecut.com. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Corey Antonio Rose. This episode was edited by Nina Patuck. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Verilyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangveni. All right, that's all for this episode of it's been a minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luse. Talk soon. Support for NPR and the following message come from Boland Branch. Turn your bed into a sanctuary this fall with their buttery, breathable bedding. Enjoy 15% off your first set of sheets at B O L L and branch.com with code NPR. Exclusions apply.
