[0:04]Welcome back to 101 East. This week we are in Kota Kinabalu in the Malaysian state of Sabah. For decades, foreign workers have flowed across Sabah's porous borders, settling here with their families. But without legal documents, those born here are not recognized as Malaysian citizens, neither are they citizens of the countries they originated from. This is the story of one stateless woman in her own words.
[0:32]My name is Suraida. And my mother said we came here because it's easy to find a living here. There's no trouble here, not like the Philippines. There's always war. So that's why we moved here. She went back to the Philippines, and I stayed here. It's hard to get good work without any documents. All of us, including my children, have no papers. My employer pitied me because I have a lot of children. And so he's let me work here. At least it's something. Last night, there were rumors that the police would come. So we were on the lookout, all of us, my children too. We all ran and spent the night in the forest, so they could not arrest us. My second son and my husband were deported a year ago. And they haven't come back. I don't know where to find them. How can we go back to the Philippines? Where will we go? We don't have a home. Continuing with our discussion on illegal migrants here in Sabah. Doctor, how much is the repatriation exercises a political tool for the ruling party to gain favor again in Sabah? We've just come out of an election where the ruling party did not perform well. There are rumors that several Sabah MPs may defect over to the opposition. Is the deportation exercises a way to appease political tension? Well, it is true that all the component parties in Sabah made a demand, demand to the federal leadership. Uh that one of those that need to be resolved in Sabah is the long standing problem illegal migration in Sabah. All of us, all the component parties. And uh this is one of the response. I think this is a genuine effort for them to do uh at the time to resolve the whole thing, although some past experience he has always been an exercise in futility. There were several such operations before, but you see an increasing numbers of these immigrants in Sabah. And now with the conflicts in the Southern Philippines as reported, uh there will be even more of them here. But uh again uh if they are here to work and so on, I I frankly I I don't have a problem with that because we we need extra labor force. But if uh they are here and uh uh because of hardships and so on, they were idling and uh there are crimes being committed and so on, then of course there'll be resentment. By just deporting these people, it's not really the the real solution. Because uh in our fact finding missions, in the last two fact finding missions, they keep coming back to Sabah. That's right. So it's it's it's not, you know, by deporting them by flushing out the these illegal immigrants out of Sabah. It's not really, it's not really the solution. So, even if they have set up a mechanism like the RP Malaysia working group on migrant workers, I think the the both government should look at it, how effective. Because on our part is is defective, you know? We're talking we're talking about two issues here though, aren't we? We're talking about illegal working migrants and we're also talking about stateless people. People who have been born here in Sabah and yet are not recognized as Malaysian citizens and yet also not recognized as Filipino citizens. Should both groups be deported or should they be addressed as separate issues? Yeah. For for for us for Migrante International, since uh we believe that uh the Malaysian government has the responsibility, because they the migrants are already here. I think they have the right, they have the right to be afforded uh protection against uh under the Malaysian uh Malaysian laws. Malaysia is not signatory of the UN protocol on refugees 1952. So um Malaysia does not recognize the rights of refugees as such to begin with. But Malaysia is a signatory of the UN Convention on the Rights of Children. Let me just read to you what Article 7 says. Article 7 says the child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name and the right to acquire a nationality. If that's the case, why doesn't Malaysia then as a signatory to the UN convention step up and help these stateless children? Okay, let's start with the um refugees, okay. Malaysia does not recognize their rights as refugees to begin with. In in in the children, uh, okay. Malaysia is doing a little bit of of that now. But I think this is in what way? Well, I think the um uh uh at least trying to identify them, you know, and as I say, it has not been easy. That is why for my party, for my party, we are asking for a Royal Commission of inquiry. to actually determine who these people are, where they are. Doctor, we've had royal inquiries after royal inquiries, but there is no there has not been there has not been a royal commission inquiry into this. I I I don't think the so-called royal commission will be a solution as well. Because it would still be the same government who are appointing people into that commission. And uh and this type of royal commissions has been dealing with various other scandals and so on. And you don't see resolutions out out of that. Even if Malaysia is a signatory to the refugees convention, uh this strictly speaking this so-called stateless children, they are not refugees. Uh strictly speaking they uh for example, a lot of them came here because of economic hardships and they've been like second or third generations here. Uh and I agree with Connie, some sort of uh basic basic protection should be afforded to them. Uh if the Malaysian government can't handle that, that's fine. We have NGOs, international NGOs, NGOs from more advanced countries are happy to do that. But are the Malaysian government willing to open its door to these NGOs to help these children? I think that is also crucial. Connie, how much responsibility should the Philippine governments take over this issue? Uh between the two governments, uh we feel that it's the Philippine government who has the principal uh responsible of uh the plight of Filipino migrant workers. We've been uh trying to uh pressure the government to really solve the conflict in Mindanao. And at the same time, uh set up a national industrialization that will create more jobs for the for the Filipinos. But uh for Malaysian government, they should not also absolve the responsibility because they are they're the recipient of these uh migrants. And at the same time, I think the government should the Malaysian government should look at what is the contribution of these migrants. They are working in the plantations, they are working in construction sites to help boost the tourism industry in Malaysia. And I think it's it's fair enough, you know, that they can they have to provide uh equal protection under the Malaysian law. Do you agree that's fair enough just to ask for protection from the Malaysian government? But I think that's very fair and I think there are to my mind, uh there are well protected in that sense. The enforcement law enforcement authorities is only doing their job for compliance of the law. Uh that's all. Yeah. The resentment comes in the form of very practical things, such as you go to hospitals and then you see long queues and most of which are Indonesians or Filipinos. Uh but again, as I suggested, those issues could partially at least partially be solved by allowing a lot of NGOs who are very willing to provide educational and health needs for for these migrants. We just if we just open our doors for them to come in. I think we can solve a lot of these very practical problems. Are you saying that NJ is not allowed right now? Are you saying that? Sorry. Are you saying that? I think it's very open. Any NGO can come and help. Uh for example, if they want to set up schools, uh if they want to uh teach in a certain way. I don't think I don't think that's correct because uh even among Indonesian uh uh uh workers, uh the the Malaysian government have allowed them to put up a school in the in the in the plantation, you know, with Indonesian curriculum things like that. It's being done.
[9:03]So perhaps the Indonesians are a lot more organized. They're they're we're running out of time. Doctor. Is it time that Sabah just accepts the fact that there will be foreign migrants and it is time for them to integrate and accept them in society? I think we have to make up our minds as to whether we indeed like to do that to integrate them as part of our uh population or we continue with this uh sometimes deportation, sometimes welcoming them uh sort of uh policy. And it really have to uh have the right mindset as to whether we will again welcome them to fulfill our labor needs or indeed we will play this game of sometimes welcoming and sometimes deporting. Connie, the last word from you. What do you think is the final solution? I think there should be a political will on the part of the Malaysian government and the Philippine government to concretely address the issues of migrants. Uh it is the responsibility that uh as a recipient and as uh a host country, you know, of these uh foreign guests, is the responsibility that they have to provide protection. We're going to have to leave it there. Well, that's all the time we have for this edition of 101 East from Kota Kinabalu in Sabah. Thanks for joining us.
