[0:00]By using the online dating app, it kind of changed their perception of how they're looking at dating in general. Like, in the old days where a woman was considered to have a little bit more passive role in dating. That's also changing. Now they can express their intention a lot more vocally. It's not like everybody wants to find, um, marriage partner on the dating app on everyday life. They actually want to look for sometimes a friend, sometimes someone to talk to, sometimes just someone to casually change perspective on life, etcetera. And we call that generation, that we see that a lot in Vietnam as well, that generation of exploration. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Vietnam Innovators. I'm your host, Hao. Thank you for tuning in every single week and supporting the podcast. Today, we have a friend, he's visiting from Singapore. Uh, he also leads the Vietnam team but also Asia Pacific team for Tinder as the VP of marketing. Lots of cool stories about what they're doing and and we've invited him here today to share about that. Uh, so Daniel, welcome to the studio. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Hao.
[1:07]Hey everybody. Uh, before we start today's podcast, I want to share a bit about our partner for the rest of this year's Innovators podcast season, Overseas Vietnamese. Starting with the Overseas Vietnamese Summit co-hosted by us, Vietcetera, and O.V. It's going to be on January 2nd, 3rd and 4th, 2025 in Ho Chi Minh City. If you're an OV professional looking to build your career in Vietnam, this is the event for you. Join us for insightful panels, top tier speakers, and amazing network opportunities. You can check the link in the description or scan the QR code to grab a ticket. Hope to see you in the network too.
[1:51]We were just speaking offline that Asia Pacific is a huge focus for Tinder. You mentioned markets like Japan, uh, Singapore where you're living, but also Vietnam, of course, which is why you're here on this show. Would love to just maybe start with, uh, a question about, uh, what your background is. Um, what your relationship with Vietnam is, uh, maybe just start there as an introduction. Yeah, Vietnam, I think, um, well, it's a very special country in my heart. I'm pretty sure everybody will come here and they'll say that to you as well, but it goes way back in a sense, like I think more than a 15, 20 years back. I didn't had any physical contact with the country back then before, actually my first interaction with the country was perfume. There's just like a brand from Tiptique, a very perfume called Doson. I don't know if you're aware, Hao, but Basically, the perfume was designed in the memory of the founder of Tiptique, like how he spent his youth during Halong Bay and everything when he was very young. And he expressed that perfume in a very serene and very tranquil, but it at the same time there's like a very strong strength underlying below it. And I actually experienced that perfume around 2007, like quite some time back. Um, I fell in love with it and since then until now it's one of my favorite perfumes. And over time I had a chance to meet Vietnamese folks through work or of course, like with a I visited the country also a couple of times with personal and business reasons. And I realized it was like a very good expression of like how he was feeling about Vietnam, actually was completely true. I mean, personally, I was like having some trouble sleeping last night. So I was like, I think I woke up around 4 or 5 a.m. and I was like looking outside of the window, it was very like tranquil river with like a little bit of a fog going on, very like almost divine serenity happening. But at the same time, by 5 a.m. city's already awakening up and they can see like a lot of energy going on on the street. People going out and then going somewhere. I think it's just like a perfect way of expressing it. I'm like complimenting on other brand and other variant in the sense, but I really appreciated that and I think it's like somewhere, well, in a special place in my heart over time. Okay. Yeah, that's fantastic. Ironically, I was just meeting with a perfume entrepreneur this morning. Um, and he had very similar, I guess you could say motivations for starting the company, like the smells of Jalang, which is Chinatown in Ho Chi Minh City and all these other neighborhoods in the city. So, very cool. Awesome. Let's talk about, uh, Tinder a little bit. That's why we have you here on the show today to be sharing some expert insights about, uh, consumer apps, um, marketing approaches for, uh, apps in this case, Tinder. How do you see its role evolving in Southeast Asia where a lot of young consumers, uh, they're all digital, they're all online. And then of course, in particular, Vietnam. Very good question. I, I guess like, this year is 12th year anniversary of Tinder. Um, we've been here around, I think more than a decade before I started working on the brand, I was using it as a user also for quite some time. And since day one until now, both like witnessing as a user or at the same time someone who was working for the brand right now, the primary goal what Tinder wants to stand for hasn't really changed. We believe in real human connection and I guess our journey throughout last decade and more, actually was like trying to make sure that we bring that to life in globally or even in Asia as well. And well, the testament of that working actually is the fact that we're world's most popular dating app. At the same time, we're most popular dating app in Southeast Asia and Vietnam as well. And I guess it's something that we want to continue to fight for, like make sure people connect and then like find themselves through the application a little bit better. And also at the same time, well, if at least for certain things, it'll enable them to maybe find a lifelong partner or at the same time find a friend. I guess what we have also observed over past decade was the concept of the Tinder actually or online dating itself has started to influence a dating category even beyond, actually dating category itself. We're actually touching base on how culture is evolving or how people are perceiving the relationship in general. Recently, there was a study that we did in Vietnam where it was showing that more than 50% of actually the users here was claiming that by using the online dating app, it kind of changed their perception of how they're looking at dating in general. Like in the old days where a woman was considered to have a little bit more passive role in dating. That's also changing. Now they can express their intention a lot more vocally. Online dating app is also trying to help that a lot more in the sense. So we're realizing that it has a lot better impact versus what we have thought it would and we feel responsible for that as a world large as a most popular dating app as well. Um, yeah, and my hope is another decade to go, um, or even century to go, we'll try to keep fighting for that. To get sure make sure that real connection happens between people and we facilitate that as much as we can. Is one of our biggest desires in a sense.
[7:05]Uh, yeah, which is my next question about adaptation to cultural norms. Uh, you mentioned that a lot of the young generation, they're changing habits, uh, because of just being online, basically. What are some insights you've gained? Uh, you've already touched upon a couple, but let's, let's dig into that a little bit deeper if you can. Yeah, very good question also. Tinder is servicing in near to 190 countries with more than 45 plus languages. So we're actually one of the most skilled, um, dating app that actually exists out there on the planet per se. I guess the reason behind the success of that also is that there's like unifying factor of the needs of what younger generations are looking for in terms of dating. They want something that is talking more about like possibilities and or appreciating the joy of the beginning itself. Rather than trying to think about only on certain outcomes per se. I'm not saying it's bad per se, but it's not like everybody wants to find, um, marriage partner on the dating app on everyday life. They actually want to look for sometimes a friend, sometimes someone to talk to, sometimes just someone to casually change perspective on life, etcetera. And we call that generation and we see that a lot in Vietnam as well, that generation of exploration. So this specific generation is considering dating more as closer to a journey or rather than an experiential component where they can understand about other people a little bit more. And along that journey they understand about themselves a lot better, which is the ultimate goal that they're going after. Not necessarily like I want to get there, I want to get married very fast type of a thing. We're not rushing into marriage in a sense, I think I would put it like that. Yeah, and I think that's something that is very, very unique that we have seen in this generation Z per se. And for Vietnam's case, another thing that I admire or I appreciate a lot more is they're very hopeful in a way that what we want to find as a ultimate relationship goal or like trying to find something out there. They're very rigorous, passionate, hardworking individuals that I have met on the Vietnamese in the sense, but one thing that we want to make sure to help out these users, maybe it's a cultural thing also. But sometimes we're a little shy in terms of our desire, what do we want to express and talk about it out there or what not. From a brand level, I guess like past couple of years ago, we launched this uh, School of swipe where we try to educate these user to tell them what is important for them to talk about, how to connect with other people. Or even like trying to let them understand what's the basic dating etiquette type of a thing. So we facilitate them to go out and then connect with others. Like, um, I guess long time ago I had this movie that I watched, like, um, I don't know if you know this, it's called Zookeeper's Wife. I don't think it was like a big movie, it's an old movie, so it kind of reveals the age also in the sense. Um, that movie, there's a scene of like dad trying to give an advice to his son where he has a crush on this girl at school. Um, and at the same time, he just doesn't know how to express it and the dad tells him that sometimes all you need is just like that three seconds of mad courage where you just, you just go out there, express how you feel about yourself in the right manner and don't get so scared about being rejected. I think I guess only advice that I want to give for Vietnamese, um, young daters is sometimes it matters more for you to actually be brave and then go out there and then connect with people. For us as a brand, we want to support them as much as we can, but in the end of the day, the person who makes the move is themselves. So we want to be there for them, but that's just something that I really wanted to tell them if I have a chance. That's great. Yeah, this will go viral on TikTok, hopefully. I mean, you answered this question already, but like, perhaps we can go into a little bit more as is those trends. About how younger people are approaching dating, relationships, even marriage. Like I read something recently that, um, the average age of marriage in Ho Chi Minh City at least has gone up from, I think it was 23, 24 in 1999 and it's 30, surpassed 30 for the first time in the urban setting Ho Chi Minh City. Um, what are, what are some other observations or comments you can make about trends like that? Maybe I think, I can stick to that and then maybe double click into Y component a little bit. We have this thing called, um, year and swipe where we try to understand this there any unique trend that we're seeing both on our users on our dating app or in general in the dating category itself. What we have observed over time is near to 70% of Gen Zs are actually saying that they want to challenge the defined norm or expectation that they have in terms of relationship. I guess in the old days in Japan or some of the countries we used to call it as a marriage hunt. We would try to like go after dating to try to get married by a certain age type of a thing. Those perception is shifting. We're not rushing into the concept of I want to get that outcome as soon as possible. And we don't have that belief that happily ever after will be achieved if you were just to be efficient and effective about these things. They try to use dating as a journey to go out there and then I guess like meet people, learn about themselves a lot better. And even use it as a experiential component to expand their spectrum a lot larger, right, versus what they actually are carrying today. What we also have observed over time was, well, maybe it's like an interesting tip for how to set up a profile on Tinder. In the old days when it was very goal-oriented and outcome driven, like what kind of job do you have, what kind of social status do you have actually was a primary measure for you to actually put it out there on the bio to get the matches out. These days, what Vietnamese youngsters also they're looking for is by meeting with this people, and they meeting with this person and then having a conversation with them, will that actually brought in my spectrum on life? Or do they have an inspirational lifestyle, even if it's not about like having a high social status or making a lot of money. By actually talking to them, will I learn something? Will I actually be able to see something that I cannot see in my daily routine, becomes like one of the key driver for them to actually go after. So we actually are seeing that, well, trend of a certain type of a bio that showcases of experience that you're carrying as a individual, rather than the social status, tend to get better likes versus the other, which is a very interesting trend that we're seeing. Okay. Let's talk about, uh, these are global trends of course, too, but particularly in emerging markets where these habits are, are and and mindsets about things are evolving so rapidly. Uh, things like user safety and data privacy, especially in these emerging markets where perhaps roles have not been defined yet. Um, how are you, how is the team contributing to the larger social kind of, um, contribution about mental health and people's relationship with others? How are you, if anything, in Vietnam as well or just APAC at least, um, contributing to that in the dating space? It's also complex in its own way because, I guess, when brand tries to solve a very big social problem, you need to understand where is it coming from, how can you help them and everything. But it's something that we realized that we couldn't let go because dating experience itself is very personal and it's deeply tied with societal, that what everybody is living in, right? Um, in general, what we have been committed in Vietnam over time was the mental health component matters a lot. Um, we brought in a partnership with NGOs trying to make sure that whoever is going off for dating, we try to give them what is the healthy dating relationship that they need to gun after. So in the end of the day, when they achieve that they can help them in a larger perspective, not necessarily just about dating. It goes similar with our safety centers features that we have launched over time or certain narrative that we want to talk on the brand. Like, for example, recently we had a social activation related to international Women's Day where we wanted to talk about what are the right expectation we want to have as a daters, as a female in this country. And those things actually matters a lot for us to navigate because in the end of the day, it doesn't seem like a direct benefit that brand wants to command or something that we want to sell as a service, but it matters for a longer term. So it's something that we're committed and next year there's a lot of exciting product feature related to safe and trusted that is coming along as well. Just because I guess we're acknowledging the fact that we have to continue this and we're devoted and dedicated in terms of making difference over time. That's amazing. Like as you were just explaining that AI function, which is quite useful, just like the future vision of dating just like flashed before my eyes, it's like, it reminds me of movies like Her for instance, where the AI is ever present and not dating the AI necessarily, but it's constantly observing your well-being or your interactions with people. Um, interesting. Okay. Very cool. Uh, and and good to know that's in relation to the safety and privacy topic.
[16:15]Hey everybody. Uh, thanks for tuning in for another episode of the Vietnam Innovators Podcast and before we finish today, I just want to share a bit about our partner for the rest of this year's season. Overseas Vietnamese. Starting with the Overseas Vietnamese Summit co-hosted by us, Vietcetera, and OV. It's back on from January 2nd to the 4th, 2025 in Ho Chi Minh City. We want to introduce you about why. So if you're an OV professional looking to build your career in Vietnam, this is the event for you. You can join us for insightful panels, top tier speakers and amazing network opportunities. You can check the link in the description or scan the QR code to grab a ticket. So we hope to see you there and in the network. Take care. Bye bye.
