[0:01]is here as Singapore's founding father served as prime minister for more than 30 years until 1990. He now serves his minister mentor to the current Prime Minister his son at age 86. He is regarded as an elder statesman on the global stage whose views are widely sought. He is in the United States from meetings in New York with people like Henry Kissinger in Washington with people like the chairman of the Federal Reserve Ben Bernanke and the President of the World Bank Bob Zec who also receive a lifetime achievement award from the US Aion business I am pleased to have him back at this table to get a world view that he is highly regarded for understanding the dynamics of the world that we have come from and the world that we are going to. So welcome. Thank you. Um, where are we do you think in terms of a kind of world order. We have gone through in the 89 and 90 the collapse of the Soviet Union, the collapse of the Berlin wall, then we had the United States engaged in the Middle East in a long war that continues then we had the global economic crisis. So many people say what is going to come out of this? Well, I see the in Iraq and Afghanistan as distractions. It's not going to change the world, whatever happens to Iraq or Afghanistan because the major changes that are taking place is is the recovery of China and the uh the last extent of India, the places they occupy two centuries or three and a half three centuries ago before Western colonization, blanketed them. Uh three centuries ago they were between the two of them 60% of the world GDP just the population and the production that they put out. China is again on the growth path. She's now a member of WTO. She knows that every year she's going faster than anybody else and can do that for another 20 30 years because she's got such an enormous number of workers back in the west and the land. 89% 10% no trouble at all but after that, then they reach a ceiling where their labor is concerned and they they got to up increase productivity. But by then in 30 years they would have an economy not per capita but in total terms bigger than the USA. which means they've got resources to build up uh political strategic and other and in fact in anticipation of that people they treat her differently because they know that this is going to be a a big fellow around the block. It's a water shed. I mean the world order that we knew was dominated by the Cambodian people.
[3:20]Europe technology selling ships and aircraft they conquered the world.
[3:30]Globalization. globalization, well, industrialization first and they globalize. And America is the extension of Europe with a difference and that she is more embracing of other races. The 20th century was the American century. The first half of the 21st century, a large part of it will still be the American. But I believe the second half you will have to share top places with China and also with India mix space for them too. You have said in a speech I read just today that the relationship between the United States and China based on what you just said has become the most important global geopolitical issue. Yes of course. Yes. How they both handle it?
[4:30]From the in a very pragmatic almost coldblooded and clinical fashion. On the American side there's been some vaccination first Chinese and advisory, strategic advisory and China is a strategic partner. And China is a stakeholder and China is a uh uh not China wants to be as in the famous words of Bob Zelic and other uh president of the World Bank.
[5:08]And they want to be a stakeholder. As Bob Zelic kind of that phrase. In Singapore, I think. Well, I mean, whatever it was. Whatever it was, you know. And the Chinese were wondering what that meant. They didn't know what state owned meant. They now know. Yes, they looked up the dictionaries, they didn't get much out of it. They discussed with friends and uh I'm one of the friends. So I said to them, well that means, although you're not a dreamer in the company, you have an interest in the company because you sell to the company and if the company goes bus, you got no customer. And if you got no customer, your trade will go down and you have unemployment. So you have an interest in keeping that company going. And they have an interest in keeping you going because you are a good customer. You're good producer for them. Cheap goods, cheap products and good quality. Well, there's great hope that they will become more of a consuming economy and we'll become more of a saving economy. You point that out.
[6:16]The Chinese have had 4,000 years or 5,000 years of all kinds of catastrophes, earthquakes, floods, famine, uh, invasions. Where the central government failed entirely and they can nobody can help you. You've got to help yourself.
[6:39]Let me tell you this anecdote. I was having my game left shoulder from golf being massaced by a very superior Chinese master who has to their leaders and they send him down to try and fix my game shoulder and he fixed it in three weeks. So we had to chat because I have 45 minutes on the couch, what can I do? So there was a flood up the Young Sea River, so I said well, now you you've opened up. You get lots of relief supplies. He looked at me and puzzle. This is you don't understand. The relief supplies will arrive in Shanghai. The floods will prevent it from reaching the villages. And iceville knows that it's going to happen from time to time, and up on a little hill they keep the rice, the salt and all the essential safe so that they will survive such a calamity. And that habit just like the Japanese have the kit underneath their bed for earthquakes. That is their habit of surviving. So they stuff the money under the pillow, as banks are not trustworthy or gold. And that habit is not going to change. That habit is like a long time. It will take one, two generations of affliction. And I it may happen in the cities. It is not going to happen in the country side. You say this about America, uh, as well. You talk about the Chinese is having, they have patience, and they have persistence, and they have discipline, and they have organization. But you say America has something special that will be part of the inevitable competition. It is it's resilient and more importantly its creativity. Yes, of course. No, it's not just American talent and gets you here.
[8:41]You're just 300 million people and they got 1,300 million and very many more able people, but you are attracting all the adventurous minds from all over the world and embracing them and that they become part of your team. Now I don't see two two and Indians and uh uh half a million other people, Japanese, Koreans and others becoming part of China. I mean, first the language is so difficult. Yes. Secondly, the culture is not. How do you fit in? What should the United States do as it looks at the inevitable growth of China as a dominant player? What would be a wise foreign policy? I think because you have two or three decades before it reaches its full strength. No, I think because you have two or three decades before it reaches its full strength. No, even in three decades it won't reach its full strength. In three decades it's per capita is still about one third of America. It's gross metric for it to reach America's standard of living and standard of technology will take more than 100 years. So what should the United States do while has the position it has now. I think make sure that they feel that they are accepted at the top table. Make sure that China feels like it's accepted at the top table. Yes, your place is waiting for you when you make it, but you got to play by the rules of the game. And the key really is whether the next generation, this generation understands it. They know that they have no chance competing against the West, America especially in technology and especially in military technology. Absolutely no chance. Let me build a aircraft carrier to guard the shipping lines where they carry oil and other vessels. This is the first time where the Chinese are growing but dependent on the world for its resources. But they're going around the world uh signing up contracts in Iran and in Africa. Absolutely, but before that it's all within the Chinese empire. They don't have to worry about the rest of the world. This time they have to worry about the rest of the world because without the resources, the oil, the oil, nickel, whatever, the growth will stop. Will they be able to create the domestic demand that's necessary as they find exports reduced? Slowly. But in the meantime, that's keeping the economy going by enormous expenditure on infrastructure in the west. high speed roads, high speed railways, airports, telephones, lines, bringing water from the south up to the north was added and dry. He was an enormous project. That keeps it going. Well, India have an advantage, some argue because it's democracy and China is not. Let me put it this way. If India were as well organized as China it will go at a different speed. But going at the speed it is because it is India. It's not one nation is many nations. It has 320 different languages and 32 official languages. So no Prime Minister and can at any one time speak in a language and be understood throughout the country. You can do that in. So in the end do you think that system will change in? I think it will have to change as the people get more and more organized. Today it's about 40% urban or less than 40% urban more than 60% rural. When you reach tipping point and 60 70% are urban with mobile phones, PDAs, you can download anything you want, send any messages you want. It's already had it It's effect. I mean the on earthquake.
[13:06]In the old days nobody would know about it. except to say such and that quick took place. Here immediately, SMS all the Chinese new, the world new and they had to go public. And the prime the Prime Minister took a plane full of pressmen and went there and tried to comfort them and assure them that they. So you're saying that communication and uh and technology and the flow of information will have an impact. And and the organization, if you're in the side, that's different, you can be isolated. But when you are in a together in a urban center and they're planning 10 urban centers with 40 billion people each. That's the plans on the plans. On the Uh with a scheme of things. 40 billion people in four megacities always you know you can call up a meeting any time you want. You call a right any time you want. So it's a different world. Therefore you have to pay attention to what people think. And today they're watching the internet very carefully because they know what the what the average person in the in the cities are thinking. Now what are they afraid of? Where is their fear of? There's not afraid. They just do not they just do not want to lose control. Well, so they're afraid of control. No. They are afraid that they will lose control of the situation. In the old days, way back in May's days, everybody is dependent on the state. The state is the only employer and everybody has what you call a Hoko. Hoko is a a residence permit. And if you lose your job because you're anti-the government or you're a crook or whatever, you've had it. There's no other employer. But today, there are multiple employers, all company. people have options. Yes, absolutely. And that means the government has lost control over the people. I mean, they can be entrepreneurs, they can be they run their own businesses, shops, whatever it is. But are they moving towards some form, not a western form, some form of more participation in the political process. Uh they are co-opting all the successful people into the community system. That's a smart policy. the three representatives. So whether you're an artist, whether you're a businessman, whether you're an activist, anybody who's got the extra drive to contribute to a greater China come and join us. Coming out of the global economic crisis even though the United States is a dominant country. Uh it is forced to look to build and to engage and build coalitions on a whole range of big issues. And there is never now a guarantee of unprecedented support. It's hard to put together. For example, sanctions against Iran. Iran is a special case. Iran got oil and gas. The Chinese desperately needs they need oil and gas. Russia is playing a game with Iran. Russia doesn't need oil and gas, but Russia wants to cut the US down to size and remind the US, you need me to run the war. with the Chinese, they have they are doing their calculations. I think in extremis they must know if they buck the world, if once the Russians says all right, we agree I would bet 50-50 that the Chinese will also say. So the Russians say will will engage in sanctions, the Chinese will follow. They would not want to be the man out and be held responsible. What if the United States would find another partner or another supplier of energy for Iran? No, in place of Iran. Yes. When you find it. Well, in the Middle East in Saudi Arabia. No. Not possible. Not possible. I had a Chinese diplomat say to me that they would be they would welcome that. That if in fact they did not have a necessity of needing Iranian oil. they would go along with sanctions because they don't think they need Iranian oil, they need Arabian oil, they need Nigerian oil, they need oil. They need all the oil they can find anywhere. Yes, of course. But for the to fuel the economic growth at 8% at 8%. Absolutely. Tell me about Russia and what how you see Russia today?
[18:02]Well look, I'm doing a little bit of business in Russia. Yes. I'm also a number of the board of governors of the school and invited to join it. But was now the president. So I speak as one who is a semi uh a semi Russian colleague. I would say the would do immensely better if they could get their system right. The system's not as functioning and not as functional as it should be because it's gone here wire, you've lost control over the various provinces. is trying to bring it back to the center but it's difficult. What do you think of the relationship between and?
[19:02]Everybody knows that uh Mr. is a very friend of Putin and also knows that Mr. Putin is a very powerful fellow.
[19:15]Mr. is working through uh very powerful men called who are all from the FB. which is the Yes, I mean. So I would I would not Mr. Mr. is a highly intelligent man. He's a good friend of Putin and he sees no reason why he should want to clash with Putin. And Mr. Putin will return to be president another day. I would say the probabilities are high. But you also said in the speech that I read that their capabilities of Russia are limited. The capabilities are limited. Well, they've got enormous a nuclear arsenals, but what else?
[20:08]They are army is very different army now. Uh there are force, they're building new weapons but I mean, the navy is and the population is declining is uh alcohol drugs and pessimism. And if you you're every year more Russians die than Russians are born because people are not optimistic in America, people are optimistic and say right I'll bring a child up into the bring a child into the world. But when your life is so harsh and from time to time it gets better when the oil price goes up. But that's when it momentarily You have a different view of the future so what's the point of this? What about Japan back to Asia? I think the Japanese need an overall. Terms of that political system. Yeah. And in terms of their acceptance of immigrants. Their birth rate is one point that fertility rate is just slightly higher than ours. We're 1.29, they're 1.38 and they're shrinking. But we are a small population so we are in we can make up with any numbers from young, bright Indians, young, bright Chinese, young, bright Malaysians and all the people around the world and some Middle East you we now have Ukrainian serving in our army our citizens. the think in Singapore. Yes, of course. Russians too. East Europeans and British who have married our local girls. and British women who married Singapore men but Japan does not want immigrants. So they are stuck. Today they have 3.2 working persons to support one adult. In 2055 they love 1.2% to support one adult. And immigrants have been America's strength. Absolutely. But mind you, immigration of the highly intelligent and highly hard working, very hard working people. If you get immigration of the fruit pickers, you may not get very far. I I met some a Chinese delegation recently who's here in the last couple of weeks. And I said to a very important member of the government, not at the highest level but very important, what are you doing here? He said we're trying to get highly educated Chinese. To go back. Yes. Yes, of course. To go back. I said, well, what do you say to them? Say to them, you'll have opportunity and I say to them, the homeland needs you. That's what he said. Well, that doesn't sell. What will sell is you can leave any time you want and I allow your children's special educational facilities and all of you can keep your American green card or passport. And that works. Well, I'm not sure what they do work. But they'll go back and and the water. Some, but will you go back and stay maybe because you know the older generation they are emotionally tied up, but will your children stay? No. The they the up bringing has been here and they go back to China and they say wow, this is a very regimented society. Papa, I'm going back. So, no, there's no comparison, I mean. two and there's chuck and cheese. Yes. between the two societies, especially for young children who can see how independent American children are can grow up and become anything you want, beat nick of your like. Oh to use an old expression. Or whatever in China. Yes. You come out like sardines. Yes, exactly. So so will the Chinese be able to say one of the things that you point to in terms of this uh relationship between this competition. You say China and the United States will have competition but they must avoid conflict. No, I think both sides don't want country. They don't want country. China wants to spend time focusing on its internal development. It's economic development. China wants time to grow. To grow. If there's going to be any conflict that's it for 50 years. But in at some point as China grows it's going to want to be the dominant nation in the world because it'll have But it is not going back to China. Yeah. Oh China where they were the only dominant power in the world. This time they're going back to a world where there are several dominant poles that's as enterprising and more creative than them. So we're looking at a multipolar world. Yes, absolutely. And we'll never go back to sort of the kind of thing that we have between the Soviet Union the United States. No. No. That would be the US. That would be China. The Indians are going to be themselves. They're not going to be anybody's lucky. They may not be as big as China and GDP. And you also suggest they've got to develop and manufacturing capital of course. Uh you're going to have Europe will be an economic force. It will not be a strategic political or military force because they can't get together. The foreign policy. It's inevitable that they can never together? I'm not saying it's inevitable but if you look at them there's still 27 different nations. I mean they won't accept one language. Although they all use English as a second language. But you tell them that in Brussels you speak are the French or English or either your own language or English which is what is actually happening in committees. They absolutely refuse. So how long will that take to disappear? I don't know. I mean never. Take a take Singapore. Yes. You have said that you have Singapore has to maintain its relevance. Yes. It has to be a place that people want to invest in. It has to be a place, go ahead. It has to be a place that's useful to the world. Otherwise it wouldn't exist. And that's what you had created since the founding of the modern city state. We have made ourselves relevant to the world. And how will you maintain your relevancy? by keeping on changing, you cannot maintain your relevance by just staying put. The world changes. There are shifts in the geopolitical and the economics of the world. We got to watch it and we got to write it. You yourself with the as the self comes this way, you'll write yourself. We are keeping our links with America with Japan, with Europe. They brought us to where we are. And you're not going to have to choose. No other nation will have to choose. Absolutely refuse to choose size. But we will we will not choose size between America and China or between China and and India. But I just read today an announcement by your sovereign wealth fund. Yeah. in Singapore of like over what $1.3 billion in new investments, none coming to the United States going to China, to India, to Brazil and I've forgotten where else. It's just 1.3 billion out of 300 billion is just. But not to the United States, mostly going to the United States. Yeah, but the United States at that moment is in somewhat of a unstable state is the dollar going to decline? What do you? Yes, it is cheap. But supposing you buy and the deficits grow and is unable to is unable to draw enough liquidity out of the market and you got hyper inflation. Wow. It will go down and you've lost money. So everybody is hedging. And there's a very small. So they hedging by looking at other places too. Yeah, but where? You tell me? No, tell me where if it's not the United States, there's no where to go right now. Well, we go to the of the Euro. Yeah.
[28:56]Uh we are not going to you know very little to Japan Australia and New Zealand. Uh the R&P, the Chinese are in a very control, they can make it go up, they can make it go down and you're not quite sure which way is going to go. But as in the US, you can look at the figures and you can read the federal reports every time they make a decision and you can make your guess. You also said that China and the United States, they both have to change their mindset. Yeah. What did you mean by that? Well, for the Americans you've got to see to think in terms of the Chinese as of they are today. The Chinese as they are today are people who have been suffering for a very long time especially and they feel that the world is cruel to them. And therefore they are very edgy. The Chinese they if you talk to Chinese leaders now, those over 60, they're all with Russia and second language. In 20-25 years time, they're going to meet a generation who are now in the lower ranks who have been to America and Britain and Europe. And will be English speaking and have different models in their minds. And they will know that they are not going to be the soul power in the world. Not ever again because this is a global this world. And they know that they are dependent on the world for their growth. The resources that they need. So they're going to be part of the world. Yes. Before, I mean, before meaning up till the time when the British and the others them in a in a partial way. Everything grew within China, whatever they needed, they captured territory. Then they found global markets. George H Bush invited them to South America. He he was the US representative before they had uh ambassadors. And he had a a liking for them. They were good to him. So he says you you sold us. And they saw then he succeeded. And they said yeah, this is this is the way to get out of our poverty. That was your friend that's. Yes, yes. Yeah. Then they got into the world trade center as a member WTO. I've just met Bob Rubin today and he and Henry and I, Henry and I told him that Glenn turned down to for this WTO. So he said that's a great mistake because if you turn them down, all they will do is to be a spoiler, they'll reverse engineer all your and you find genetic products on the market. bring them in get them to observe the rules. Well, that's a big if. Yeah. You got to get them to observe the rules. They are going to have to observe the rules and they will. And they understand that. No, because they're going to they're making patents of their own now. They want to open the markets around the world. That's be a part of the global economy. No, no. They are doing research almost in every sector now. including life sciences. Here's what which is something that Singapore got involved in very much with stem cell. Why did you do that? Well, we figured out that with this smart fellow around so many of them, whatever we do, they will do in time and better. But there are some areas where they will take a very long time to be able to do what we are doing. And has to change the system from opacity to transparency. from no protection for copyright to protection for copyright and rule of law. There are two rules of law in China. One for the ordinary citizen and the other for 76 million members of the Communist Party. And the judges will do what they know what the leaders require to keep the country stable. So would you Look, we've got all the big farm companies in Singapore. Yes. They're not in China. They will sell their product. Because you have protection, you have rule of law, you have protection of. Yeah. And we're we're doing joint research with them on the up on the effect of these new drugs on various types, racial types of the population. Can you make an argument that a country who leads in technology and science, uh, it'll play a long it will go a long way in terms of their place in the Yes, of course. That's why I think the US will still will still very powerful and considerable. Uh inventor and creator of new products. When you look at the US and its relationship and its concern about oil and its politics in the Middle East. Yeah. You think it's a distraction? You think that it No, I'm not saying the Middle East is a distraction. I think trying to make a country out of Afghanistan is a There was no country for the last 30 40 years. They've just been fighting each other since the last king was chased out. Right. How on earth are you going to put this little bit together? It's not possible. So therefore you do what? I'm not an expert but in my simple mind it strikes me that you won in Iraq and you won in Afghanistan not because you fought the Taliban, but because you got the northern alliance to fight them. Exactly. And you provided the northern alliance with intelligence and the capabilities to bomb them and target them. And they captured themselves. Oh. Yeah, but I mean they've got government's problems over there too. Yeah, that's all right, but that's their problem. Why do you want to make it your problem? So what would you do? Would you pull all the troops out and let whatever happens to Afghanistan happens to It's not that threatening to the United States. Is that the argument? I don't know about that because I think it cannot be more difficult to for the United States and have your troops stuck there. The Russians are a brutal so lot of army people.
[35:53]120,000 of them were there. But they had to leave. Yeah. And we helped that because we supported the. had a lot of support from around the world who wanted to see the Soviet Union take it. Yeah. But whether or not the Soviets helped them to get the Americans out. I think the Americans and the NATO troops. The NATO members are very skeptical of the outcome. Even to the point of not wanting to send their troops in certain kinds of combat areas. Quite right. Yeah. Yes, of course because you get shot for nothing. But those who argue that it if Afghanistan is abandoned. First of all, the world will say or people will say, look, you left Afghanistan once before after the Soviets had left and now you're leaving again. The United States has to stand for something and it has to show that it's prepared to stay. You don't buy that at all. You know, you must have a wonderful conversation with your friend Henry Kissinger then. No, no. No, stop there though. Where do you and Henry Kissinger differ on an on a look a view of the US role in the world. I don't think we does any difference. Is that right? How would you define it then? I think the US can be a bane stabilizer of the world order. A no stabilizer. Yeah. Without the US, East Asia would never have grown. You brought peace and technology, trade and investment and East Asia flourished. That's clear it's happened in East Asia. You talk about Singapore and North and South Korea and absolutely. So.
[37:39]And if you're not, how do we do that in the Middle East? How do we do that when you've got the kind of conflict is taking place?
[37:48]You You can't solve all the problems in the world. Ah. Some problems just got to be resolved by the. And so what are your priorities? For Singapore? No, for the United States. What should be I I cannot think. I'm not an American. I do not uh calculate in American terms. I calculate what Americans are likely to do in relation to what will happen to me. Yeah. Well, that's that's why they listen to you. That's why you're going to see Mr. Benaki tomorrow and that's why you're going to see Larry Summers and that's why you're going to see all these American officials. They want to know how you assess the way the world is working today. And your central message is you got to engage, you got to Make the Chinese feel like they are a worthy part of the world community and you got to help them join the WTO and all the things they want to do. No, they've already I know that I know they've joined but you got to make sure that you got to make sure that they understand membership requires certain obligations. Right. And the obligations start with responsibility. But you also say about the United States, it has to realize that most problems need an American participation in order to be solved. Yes. Absolutely. I mean, that's what happened, right? That's why we are in this recession, global recession. After Afghanistan and then Iraq, questions were raised about America's credibility, it's respect in the world. It went down, correct? Or not? You never bought it?
[39:23]No, it didn't go down. I think people were up, you know, by saying you're either with me or you're against me. Yeah. And uh, we don't need you. We're going alone. You do need them. You cannot go alone.
[39:41]And uh all that rough food, everybody up. That was not necessary. But it's happened and it's what the. And and the President Obama is is taking care of that in terms of the way he reached out. That's all right. But now he's got to prove by his actions that he can really implement this new policy of togetherness. That's one thing, but it seems to me you are saying that the most important question people have about America is its leadership and the most important thing they have about America's leadership is its economic leadership. Can it take care of its own house because China is growing at 8% in the second half of 2009. And it looks better in better as it goes. Oh no, no. Chinese economy is nothing compared to the American economy. Because the base is. But what the world wants to know or what the thinking part of the bank and financial world wants to know is that the Americans the administration and the Congress both Republicans and Democrats have the will to take tough measures to put this right even if it's not going to be done overnight, but it is moving in that direction it was going to put it right. Okay, how do they do that? You you've created all this needs. I mean you take care. It's not going to be done at the same price, I mean, you're covering 40 million extra people.
[48:07]So where's the money coming from? Now if the world sees that you're not making any provision for that and not letting it go, then they says, wow, this looks this looks as if it the the electric leaders have lost their will to confront the people with the truth. Is it more Congress then the president? Both.
[48:36]Both I say. Are you confident that the United States will do something about its deficit which is at $1.3 trillion for the last.
[48:50]Well, if I'm not confident and I have no hope of that I wouldn't be here. simple as that.
[49:01]Be here meaning. Be in America and wanting to understand what you're doing and what is going to come out of this of your policies. So I meet people who were in the administration or in the administration to understand the thinking and the feel and the the their gut feeling of what's happening. What's the most important change and most significant change in your way of thinking about the world over the last 20 years. That the impossible can happen. I never thought that the Soviet Union would improve so easily. And I never thought that the Chinese would abandon the Communist system and move into the free market so readily.
[50:04]It was unthinkable 20 years ago. Both has happened, the world has changed. And it's not clear exactly how it's all going to work. No, it is not exactly clear when it will happen exactly. But that it will happen now in the long term. 50 to 100 years, yes. And the center of gravity is shifting to Asia. must be because the population is there. That the talent pool of 1.3 billion people plus the Japanese, the Koreans, the Vietnamese and the others. No. It can match Europe and America. But that pool was inert. It did not have science and technology. It did not care about science and technology, but now everything that you do, Asia is doing. You're going to stem cell research, we are going to stem cell research. Chinese, Singapore has to go into it. In order to get into a field where the Chinese cannot compete with us. And the Chinese ain't it in a very big way. They're watching you and whatever you do say, oh yes, we will we will do that. You're far behind of course, but given time they're going to catch up. They're enormously curious. They are. Undoubtedly curious. Not just curious. They enormously ambitious to catch up for good reasons and for good ends.
[51:40]That you must ask them. But I think the reason is they have to they have a sense of frustration that they were down for so long. Let's make it now. Yes our chance. And the United States has to encourage them? No, you don't have to encourage them. You just got to understand that they're look, they don't want to be an honorable member of the West. I'm like Russia. They're quite happy to be Chinese and to remain as such. So when you tell them you ought to do this, you ought to do that. They say yes, thank you. And in the back of their minds, we have lasted 5,000 years, have you? Not pacing Olympics if you watch it, what was the message? We're back. No, 5,000 years. And don't forget we invented all these things and we're going to go ahead in the next 5,000 years is the only country where a language has survived 5,000 years. The only country where the present generation shares the same basic thinking as the past and they're very proud of it. I mean you read speech on the 60th anniversary. I mean it's all translated on the web. What is it? We have 5,000 years of civilization. We are going to get there. And it's a roaring speech. It may take us a long time is you can work very hard. We will do it. That's their mood, so you don't have to encourage them. What you got to get them to understand is with it goes responsibility. Hungry African, hungry, sick other people.
[53:36]This is a global problem. You can't just take copper and gold and to help with it. You got to have a responsibility for the people who scop and gold your mining. goes with the job. And they will have to learn that. I think they're already beginning to learn that so they're giving something back. It's to talk to you again. As always.
