[0:26]In the eyes of the West, there is one man who is responsible for the migrant crisis on the borders of Belarus and the EU. And that is Alexander Lukashenka, the controversial ruler of Belarus, who's been accused of stealing an election, of launching a brutal crackdown on his own people and now of weaponizing migration. So how does he respond to these accusations? Well, Mr Lukashenka has agreed to answer my questions in what is a rare interview to Western media. The European Union, the UK and America have made it clear that you are to blame for the migrant crisis, that you created this crisis and are using the migrants as a political weapon. What do you think about this claim? Excuse me, but let me put a question back to you. In 2014, when your proteges in Ukraine bombed the Donbas, why didn't you criticise me for taking in 160,000 refugees from Ukraine over a period of months? I gave them the same rights Belarus citizens had. Free education, free health care, work and so on. Why didn't the European Union, along with Britain, you were still part of the EU then, and America, why didn't you criticise me for that? Because that was OK. It was fine. These people weren't making a dash to the EU. Although some did go there. One hundred and sixty thousand came here. I took them in as if they were my own people. In this situation, thousands of refugees want to get to [the West] through Belarus. But you invited them? In May you said... Steve, I'm getting to that. Don't worry! I'm not worried. I just want to know why you invited them. They are coming through Belarus. Via the Mediterranean. I don't know who invited them. Via the Balkans. Maybe other routes. They want to go to you. Not to Belarus. In the same way, they want to get to Germany through Belarus. Back in May you signalled very publicly ahead of new EU sanctions that migrants would be coming. Steve, show me the text. Show me where I said "Come to our country."
[3:30]Inviting is when you say "Steve, come to Belarus." You asked for an interview? I said "Come along." You said, "We used to stop the migrants, and now you can catch them yourselves." When we talked to the migrants, they said they understood Belarus was open to them. Let me repeat so you understand. We signed a Readmission Agreement with [the EU.] Back then you were still part of the EU. I'm talking about you as a UK citizen. Is that OK with you? OK.
[4:09]You were still in the EU. We signed a Readmission Agreement. It took a lot of work because readmission isn't just one directional. We needed to reach agreement with Russia, Russia needed to reach agreement with you. We did a lot of work on this. If migrants turned up in the EU that came from Belarus, then you would send them back to us, but you had to finance the construction of facilities for these refugees. The work started. At the end of last year, and this year especially, by imposing sanctions on Belarus, you left the readmission project. You stopped funding the crossing points for refugees. And I said then: guys, the sanctions, plus your refusal to process these migrants - Goodbye!
[5:05]Why should I stop them on the border if they're going to the UK and Germany? Sorry, but I'm not going to create holding pens or camps for these refugees. That was the point. So I said: I won't stop them on the border, keep them on the border, and I still won't do that if they come through Belarus, because they're not coming to us, they're going to you. That was what I meant. But I didn't invite them here. But once again I don't want them to travel through Belarus. We were at the border. We spoke to the migrants. I'll tell you what they said. Some of them said, "Thank you Mr Lukashenko for giving us visas, and the possibility to get to Europe via Belarus." And some of them said they feel that you have used them like a political football, like a weapon against Europe. Some of the migrants told us that Belarusian soldiers actually helped them to cross the border. One migrant told us: "There were 150 of us. At night, they told us we were going to Poland. One Belarusian soldier cut the fence, and we started running." But they were caught in Poland and sent back. This is direct assistance from Belarus... You know Steve, you're constantly saying "Some people, some people..." And if we apply this concept, the way the BBC does, it's always "some people, somebody..." And somebody said they cut through the barbed wire. So you don't believe me? Absolutely not. I believe facts. So tell me where it happened, who did it and give me the name of the soldier. But just saying, "Some migrants said this, some of those people..."
[8:17]I'm telling you what the migrants told us. You allowed us to work there at the border and to talk to the migrants. This is what they told us. OK. But they say other things too. For some reason you're not talking about that. That they want to go to Germany and meet up with their families. You didn't ask why, among the migrants in the camp, there are two hundred children? Actually, 400 children, I think, and 200 women. There are pregnant women. Why did they risk travelling through Belarus with their children? Because they were on their way to relatives. Can you explain one thing to me? I was at the border on Tuesday when there were clashes. When the migrants began attacking Polish forces with rocks, bricks, sticks, bits of barrier, when they started to knock down border fences, Belarusian soldiers stood and watched and did nothing to stop these migrants. Why? Do you think it's OK to storm a border? It's absolutely OK. But, Steve, don't take one episode out of context. You need to tell the whole story. They set up a makeshift camp 800 metres from the border crossing. Did you see the camp where they spent the night outside by bonfires? Did you see it? I saw the camp and I also saw how, a day before the clashes, they were allowed right up to the border crossing. Why should my border guards have stopped them? We really hoped the problem would be resolved, especially after my conversation with Merkel. So [the migrants] went up there. Next. It wasn't the rocks. They went down on their knees in front of the Polish officers. Thinking that they were going to be let through, probably. Listen. Listen! Or that they would be accepting applications. They knelt down and apologised for causing trouble. And the migrants started to ask for the children to be allowed through. They weren't allowed through. That's when the scuffles broke out. Some people threw rocks, sticks. You, or your proteges... Us? The Poles. They turned on water cannon and began spraying them. The temperature at that moment was zero or minus one. I was there, I saw what happened. You weren't there. I'm telling you what I saw. Then you didn't see everything. You didn't see everything. Ah, I see. I know you discussed this crisis with the German Chancellor. Yes. What agreement did you come to? I asked her to take 2,000 people, 2,100, a bit more. Please take them in, I said. There are children there, it's an awful situation. I know that you saw it. Take them. And I am left with around 5,000. There are around 7,000 in total. I'll work on sending 5,000 back to Iraq, Syria, Iran, where they came from. And Afghanistan. But [the West] stopped talking to us and working with us. If you don't want to - then fine. We'll solve this problem without you. As best we can. How did Angela Merkel address you? As Mr President, Mr Lukashenko? Alexander Grigorievich? Why are you worrying about this? Mr President in Belarus is also Mr Lukashenko. It's interesting and important. It's not important to me at all. Because as you know, the European Union doesn't recognise you as the legitimate president. Listen. I couldn't give a damn about what you think of the President of Belarus in the EU. It wasn't the EU that elected me. Steve, you clearly don't know about this. They haven't recognised me as President for a quarter of a century. So what? So what did Merkel call you? Listen, the Belarusian people elect me. So for me, it's important how I'm seen by my own people. Is the question of legitimacy important to you? Absolutely... It's absolutely not important to me at all. Whatever you think of me, legitimate or illegitimate. You'd be better off working out what to think of Joe Biden. Legitimate or not? In my opinion he's illegitimate. You saw what went on during the [US] election. You know, I'm in Belarus and I'm more interested in what's happening here. Wait. Don't interrupt me. You're in Belarus. I'm just drawing parallels. So that you understand me. I really don't care what they think of me in England or in the USA or EU. Because the whole world has seen what you're really like. And you saw it on the border. So I don't really worry what you think of me. We'll find partners and allies without Britain. We didn't actually cooperate with you much anyway before. If you don't want this, fine. We won't die, as you want us to, we won't die. We will live, and we'll live better and better every day, because we have countries we work with, huge countries. And whatever we need to sell - we didn't sell much to the EU - we will sell. Despite your sanctions. I'm not an idiot, of course, and I realise that you don't need these sanctions, and I certainly don't need them. But if you start talking to me in the language of sanctions and don't recognise my legitimacy, then fine, a quarter of a century, I'm used to it already. Back to Belarus. Could you explain one thing to me please? If you, as you claim, received 80% of the votes at the elections last year, then why did large crowds come out on to the streets in Minsk and all over the country? Not to congratulate you on a resounding victory, but to accuse you of stealing their votes? That doesn't make sense? There's no sense in your head, Steve, and in the heads of your masters. I'll answer the question. You mentioned a number, 80%. This is not my figure, it's from the official Central Election Commission. Do you agree with this figure? Listen to me. The commission announced this figure. 80%. It's a fact, a legitimate fact. You don't have any other numbers. Nonetheless, if it was 80%, then you'd expect something like a national outpouring of love for the victorious leader, but instead of that, people came out on the streets in large numbers shouting “Lukashenko, step down!” You were flying around in a helicopter with body armour and a gun as though you were afraid of your own people. It doesn't make sense? If 80% of people had voted for you, why were there so many protesters? I was in Minsk at that time. Of course, I didn't count every single protester. I counted them. There was a massive number of protesters. The whole square was... I've told you the maximum figure. Aren't you listening? I heard your figures. I gave you a concrete figure. If you want I'll show you the picture. When I visited the prison to speak to our traitors, I gave them a copy of this picture. [Opposition figures] Voskresensky, Tikhanovsky, Babariko and others were there. You remember this. I put on the table a photo of what you called ‘the crowd.’ There were 46,000 there maximum. In a country of around ten million people. You talk about love. In the US and UK you're able to simulate this love. What did we have after the elections here? Lots of people went to [pro-government] rallies and they still drive around with the national flag. And there are more and more people coming to their senses. So it's not 80% any more. Now it's more like 87 or even 90%. Mr Lukashenko, I have reported on many street protests and demonstrations in Europe. From what I saw in Minsk last year there were far more than 40-50,000 protestors in Minsk. The whole of Independence Square was filled with protestors. Huge numbers. Don't lie! There was no-one on Independence Square. There was one demonstration I spoke at. Do you believe I was there? Of course. This is a democratic country, if people want to go... I'm telling you we saw... What did you see? We saw big crowds of people, They were big, I agree. We saw how the police arrested people, peaceful protestors. We saw how these people were beaten, we saw young men coming out of the Okrestina detention centre with injuries. We saw this. This isn't videos from the internet. Look, we've got videos. No, no, don't. OK, I admit it, I admit it. You admit it? People were beaten in Okrestina, but there were police beaten up too, and you didn't show that. What would have happened in the UK, or especially in the US, if people had attacked police and tried to break their legs? They'd get a bullet in the head straight away! But we didn't shoot anyone in the head. The vast majority of the protestors who we saw last year were absolutely peaceful. These were the most peaceful protests I've seen. And you know what made a big impression on me? After the protests, Belarusians cleaned up after themselves. The streets were totally clean. You told them to do that. We told them? When we started to show how [the West] was smashing and breaking everything in Minsk, our clean city of Minsk, where people are not used to dirt, you advised them to clean something up, just for the picture. But we can show you how they were throwing boxes of flowers and rioted in the streets. Cleanliness? What are talking about, Steve? Since July, 270 NGOs have been shut down in Belarus. Save your breath, I'll answer your question. We'll massacre all the scum that you have been financing. Oh, you're upset that we've destroyed all your little structures! Your NGOs, whatever they are, that you've been paying for! We didn't touch people who worked for the good of Belarus, who helped people. But the people who used your assistance, got funding from you, and smashed everything up here... your people you saw here in Minsk. If we haven't liquidated them already, we will do so in the near future. The Office for the Rights of Disabled People? Shut down. The Centre for Animal Lovers. Are these the weapons of the West? If you talk about animals etc, it all sounds quite colourful. But you should look at what they were actually doing. This is news to me, by the way, but I'm sure it was just a cover, protecting animals. They got money for their existence and for revolution here. Not revolution, but insurrection. So don't hide behind such words about animals. You're saying 270 NGOs worked against Belarus? Financed by the West? I don't know which NGOs exactly you financed, but if they were shut down, there must have been a reason for it. If you think that an organisation, an NGO, has been shut down unfairly, please let us know. You can contact me directly. I'll get to the bottom of it in a day. A day. And if anyone has been unfairly put on that list, if they really were helping animals, we will immediately reverse the decision. Immediately. So don't make a big thing out of this. Two hundred and seventy NGOs! In such a country as Belarus, 270! Another figure for you: there are 873 political prisoners in Belarus. We have no political crimes in the law, Steve. We have no crimes that we've prosecuted people under. We don't have them. Eight hundred and seventy-three people. These are people who have broken Belarusian law. So how many political prisoners are there in Belarus? We don't have any political prisoners. Can't you hear me? Not a single one? Not a single one. There is no such crime. What about [opposition leader] Maria Kolesnikova? Isn't she a political prisoner? She's a [Western] agent. Why is she in prison? Because she broke the law. She's a brave person though, isn't she? She led the protests and didn't flee abroad. Maria Kolesnikova was running away, out of the country. She was arrested on the border. She tore up her passport. She didn't want to leave the country. Listen, I don't know what she wanted, and I don't want to know. She ran away together with her cohorts. Isn't locking her up just revenge? Absolutely not. I'm not the kind of person who exacts revenge. Remember this if you want to understand me as a person. I don't fight women, I say it often. I'd like to ask about Vladimir Putin. You have worked together for a long time. Why don't you ask him? You work in Moscow. I'll ask him about you. Ask about me first. You've worked together for a long time. I'm interested. What have you learnt from him, and what has he learnt from you? When you ask him what he's learnt from me, you'll learn what I've learnt from him. Full stop. But you are currently creating a new union of integration with him. Yes. Like you are with America. We are with Russia. Right... You are creating a union with America, Great Britain. We are creating one with Russia. We have no union state with America. You will have soon. You have more than a union state, the Americans... I'm more interested in... The Americans told you to leave the European Union, Trump told you. And you left. Where's your evidence for that? It's the same as your evidence of crowds in Minsk, the huge numbers. Yes, there is video showing this. Everyone saw it. There's video of this too. It's a fact, undeniably. Tell me please, for this union... Tell me please, why is there no uproar about the refugees coming from France [to the UK]? Six hundred of them recently broke through. And you have a conflict with [France], and Macron threatened to switch off the electricity on some of your British islands. Why don't you tell people about this? Six hundred people crossed. The latest group. Because I am in Belarus. There are correspondents there that talk about this. OK, I accept your answer, Steve. Thank you. So back to the union. Will there be one leader of this union? Perhaps in a year, maybe two. One President, a common President. Is there such a plan for this union? Of Belarus and... This is a union of two sovereign, independent states that are forming this union. When you and the Americans are building your union, you don't discuss getting rid of the Queen or your Parliament. We don't have a union state with America. You have an alliance and you've asked me a question, so listen to my answer. Listen to my answer. When you created your alliance, you didn't tell the Americans that you wouldn't have a Queen or a Parliament. In the same way we've been forming our union since the mid-1990s, starting with Yeltsin, and we clearly defined that it would be two countries. Two countries, Belarus and Russia, that would create a union, and it would be more powerful than a unitary state, this is what I'm telling you. But Putin and I have never once discussed this ‘one President, two Presidents’ issue. Never. Because this issue is not on the agenda. Vladimir Putin recommended you should have talks with the opposition. Will you do this? Listen, I don't know who Putin advised, maybe he gave you advice or someone else. He didn't advise me on anything. We just spoke for an hour. For more than an hour. And I didn't hear any advice from him on any of these issues. That's the first thing. I can give you an example. As soon as Putin sits down for talks with Alexei Navalny, then I will instantly meet [Belarus opposition leader] Svetlana Tikhanovskaya for talks. Would you like Putin to talk to Navalny? It's his problem. I don't like this game of “would you like”. If you want my point of view, Navalny has sold out and Putin will never get around the negotiating table with him. For Putin, Navalny isn't an opposition politician, he's a traitor to Russia. Do you understand? You call anyone who says anything against you, all your opponents, traitors or enemies. Why? They're not traitors against me, Steve, they're traitors to the state of Belarus. There are fugitives, there are traitors, who are sitting in Lithuania and Poland and are funded... and in the UK too, [opposition figure] Sannikov is in London? Ask him something. And they are funded, and fed, you keep them. Lithuania told us the cost recently. Around 400,000 Euros to keep one of the fugitives living in Lithuania. These are not opposition, they are traitors. We will not have any dialogue or negotiations with them. Do you understand why the EU finds it difficult to talk to you? It's difficult because I don't dance to your tune. I conduct independent politics, independent from you and everybody else. From the Americans, the English and the EU. I'm focused on my own people. Are you saying that I have been pestering my neighbours? Did I organise some kind of fights with the Ukrainians, Poles and Latvians, Lithuanians on the border? Never. Why did you come to our home last year and try and destroy it? Why? What business of yours are our elections? We don't interfere in the UK or America, in your home, why did you come to ours, and start to smash it up? I think that these constant accusations against the West, or NATO, or Poland, or whoever else, that they've created problems here. That everything that happens here is a result of their work. That's not true. It's a fairytale. [The West] came to Belarus, where ten million people live in peace. People who suffered in the war like no-one else. Only the Jews can compete in who suffered more during the war. Why did you come to my home? Alexander Grigorievich, what has the Second World War got to do with this? What do you mean, what has it got to do with this? You should still be worshipping us! Worshiping us because we fought fascism! We were in a kind of coalition together, don't you remember? We were in a coalition with the English. Do you remember the guy with his cigar and our man with his pipe? What has the Second World War got to do with today's political situation in Belarus? They're completely different things. Steve, I'll tell you. Because you still haven't paid your dues to the Belarusian people for the Second World War. For the losses that we suffered. Only eighty years have passed, not even a hundred, since the start of the war, and you've tried to break into our home again and start a new one. No-one has broken in. No-one wants a new war. Do you realise that if a new war is started in Belarus then NATO will get dragged in, and Russia will get dragged in. That's nuclear war. No-one wants a new war. Then why are you interfering here? We are not interfering here. You are. Last year, you funded insurrection. You organised the insurrection from Poland. You. And the Americans were behind this. You think the people who went out on the streets and said “Lukashenko stole our votes” were funded by the West? No. They really think and believe that you stole their votes. All the leaders were financed by the West. Otherwise, they wouldn't have got asylum. They are all living [in the West]. Why? They ran away to where they were sent from, where they were financed from. Listen, Steve, what are you telling me? All these [opposition leaders] are sitting in the West. Why? Because they're your people and you funded them. They didn't run away to China, they wouldn't have been accepted there. Because they don't have anything to do with them. Why are you being so dumb? You understand all this perfectly. And you accuse me of repression, repression, repression. What did you expect? I had to protect my country and my people. And I did this. Or protect yourself? Maybe, maybe I made some mistakes. But I acted according to our laws.
