[0:00]I my dad gave me his iPod when I was living in Beijing to listen to music on like the bus to school. And all that was on there was like Elton John, Eric Clapton, um Carrie Underwood.
[0:19]This is about you and your journey in in music. I know you've you're an actress, but I want to talk about your music. Yeah, awesome. I'd love to. Awesome, awesome. Well, uh first off I want to tell me where you were born and raised. Um, I was born in Singapore. um, my parents were living in Indonesia at the time, but my mom gave birth to me in Singapore kind of just by chance. Oh, wow. Yeah, and I spent about maybe six months there and then, um, moved around a lot in Asia before I ended up in LA, which is my America's my eighth country. Oh my gosh. So that's a lot of moving around. So how what do you remember from, you know, childhood how or actually real quick, how old were you when you landed in LA? Um, I was I think I was just turning 17 because my birthday's in December and we moved here during like Christmas time. Oh okay. So you you lived majority of the time not in Los Angeles, it sounds like. I feel like the majority of my childhood was in China and Thailand. And then a little bit in Toronto when I started working, but yeah, Asia still feels like home. That's awesome. That is awesome. What if you don't mind me asking what did your parents do that you're moving around so much? Um, my dad's just a businessman, so he'd be like in different parts of Southeast Asia, you know. It's cool. Do his thing. Do his thing. That's cool. That is cool. And how did you get into music? Were you always singing or interested? I always loved um performing and acting and music for as long as I can remember. Um, I did like every single school play that I could. Um and I think my parents like noticed that in me and like sent me to a performing arts camp in New York for two summers. Wow. And through that, I kind of just found a manager in LA who started submitting me through self tapes. And I had no idea what that even was, but the second one I ever sent in, um was for a Nickelodeon show that I ended up booking and starring on. And that sort of took me out of Thailand for like half the year for like three years. Um and so I was back and forth uh just doing school in Thailand and then filming in Toronto, um when I was like 14. Oh, wow. Okay. That's cool that you music and musical comedy. So I kind of like that was my for into like Right because you're it was a yeah, it was a yeah, it was a music show, right? essentially, um you were like in a K-pop band or what I was reading about it. Yeah, I kind of describe it as like Zoe 101 meets Glee. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you had like there's like soundtracks and stuff, right? I mean you guys For sure. I mean in like in the studio making albums. That's so rad. Yeah, we did like, I think, um, each episode had two songs in it. So we were doing like multiple music videos a week, always back and forth between set and the studio and dance rehearsal and that was my first sort of taste of like, doing it professionally. And I think I came out of that show really being like, okay, I loved the music aspect of that. Maybe I need to start thinking about, you know, if it's music that I really want to do and how to go about pursuing that. Sure. Well, what's interesting is you you said you're going to New York to to do go to like an acting camp. Is that what it was or an acting academy? Yeah, essentially, it was like a musical theater camp. Oh, it was musical theater. Okay. So I was I guess my question would be like, how did they know you could sing when they cast you for the show? Right. Okay. Yeah. So you were traveling what back. So you must have been pretty young when you were going from Thailand to New York and back. Um, well we filmed in Toronto. So, But I mean prior to scoring the agent and getting that gig if you go back even further, Sure. I mean, I think I've just always traveled a lot uh growing up just I don't know the nature of like my parents moving a lot and me moving a lot. Um, so that didn't seem abnormal. Were you going to like school in in you said you're going to school in Thailand, but once you book the gig, were you still attending school there? Right. So first season I was, and I was, you know, dealing with like time difference and trying to communicate with my teachers back in Asia while being on set and having like 15 30 minute increments to tutor.
[4:45]Um, and it was kind of it was fun. I flew back and wrote my IGCSEs and then once we got into second season I started doing school online. Okay. I was going to I was wondering if you if obviously the kids that you grew up with and your school, they probably knew you were on the show and that they did you get treated any different at that point? Yeah, for sure. Um, I remember this is super unprofessional, but I remember coming back to school and my one of my teachers like putting the show up on like the big smart board in front of everyone during class. I was mortified. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm just trying to learn my stuff like don't out me like this. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm surprised that teacher didn't get inspired. I know, right? Wow. So yeah, so at that point you're you're on blast, right? Everyone's like, oh, you're on the show and then are are people trying to be friend you? Are they hating on you? I mean, I would think cuz kids are mean, right? Right. I mean, honestly, I think kids were meaner before the show. I didn't have the friendliest high school experience. Um, but when I came back after filming, I remember it was like prom and because I went to a British school, so we celebrated prom for like the last three years in my school. Um instead of just the last year, but I remember coming back after filming and all these boys that used to be so mean to me started being like, like, do you want to be my prom date? But like you post of us on Instagram.
[6:14]I'm like corny, tomato tomato throwing tomatoes. Wait what they they said you I'll take, I want to go to prom with you and will you follow me on Instagram? No, like if you post a photo of us on Instagram. Oh.
[6:30]Wow. Because you got a you had gained a following on Instagram. I'm taking it at this point. Yeah. Wow, that's pretty that's that's interesting. I haven't I've yet to hear that one. I've done a thousand plus of these interviews. I've never heard anyone say, yeah, Yeah. I'm like you think I want to go to prom with you that bad. It's not a flex. Like what, why is this a barter system? Right. You mean people love to say that like kids are mean.
[7:05]Yeah. Well, no, I've never heard that. Like even the Instagram thing was never just the fact that kids were mean, right? You go back and kids are mean or judgmental or they're jealous.
[7:37]Right. I mean, I guess. So then you go to LA and is it do you try to, you know, are you trying to get into the the songwriting singer world or is it like the acting thing is obviously doing well. Like let's go that route. Like how do you manage? Yeah, um, for the first year that I lived in LA, I put a lot of my focus into just finishing up school.
[10:30]Um, still auditioning back and forth still doing acting work. Um and then I think I reached a point where I was like, okay, I'm 17-year-old like mixed race little Asian girl and I'm kind of at the will of what roles are written for me, you know, and there there wasn't much at the time that I felt connected to and it was it's already so hard to book an acting job. Let alone find one that you really connect with and, you know, subject matter that you really are passionate about. And so, I think that's what pushed me into leaning into the music. Um, I'd always loved to sing, but I never really like pursued it as a career until I taught myself how to play the piano and learned how to songwrite. And I did that for like probably six to nine months, just by myself on the piano, writing as much as I could. It's all I wanted to do. I would literally like leave hangouts with my friends early because I would want to go back home to the piano and just write. Um and then somehow I found myself in this studio session with, um, Brian Kennedy, who's this incredible, I mean, multi Grammy award-winning producer. And uh, I was there as a writer writing for another artist and I was peeing my pants, had never been in a professional setting as a writer like that. Um, and ended up writing a song for the artist in like 30 minutes. Um, she loved it. She wanted to make it her next single and then Brian pulled me aside afterwards and was like, you're really dope. Like I want to bring you in to write for other artists that I work with. And that was the first time I sort of was like, oh, shit. Am I actually good? Like can I actually do this? Right. What a validating moment. For sure, especially from someone like that who I just was so much, you know, um, he's grown to sort of be like a big brother to me and we're working together now on my project, which feels super full circle.
[12:43]Um, but yeah, that's kind of how I got my foot into the music world as opposed to like the music acting world. Um and really just started going to as many sessions as I could as a songwriter for other artists. And that so you started on piano. Was it just like, okay, I want to learn piano because I like the sound of the piano or it's just like a beautiful instrument and then you just started from there writing songs or was it I want to use this piano as a tool to write cuz you just had an. I think I viewed it as a vehicle to facilitate my songwriting. Okay. Um, I, I mean, I really it's I was very self-taught like all by ear. I can't read music, you know what I mean? And it was I just wanted to be able to play enough to like write the songs that I had in my head and get them down and out, you know? Yeah. How did you land that first, how did you land those early songwriting sessions? Was it just being eager and. Honestly, I had a I had a friend who is a singer and we were hanging out one day and she goes, I can can I say shit? Because I feel like I'm Yeah. Oh yeah. You can say whatever you want.
[13:51]You never know. I should ask my publicist before I start these things. Anyways, um I uh we were hanging out and she was like, oh, shit. I have a session in 15 minutes that I totally forgot about. I know you like kind of right like, do you want to just come and cuz I don't I feel bad ditching you like just come to the session. Wow. Okay. And when you go to the session was this the one that you uh got to write the song that ended up landing and all that or was this just a totally different session? Yeah, this was the one at Brian's.
[14:28]Oh, wow. What like going in just cuz I'm not a songwriter and people listening might just curious like, when you go into that setting like how how does it all kind of work? Do you just sit down and everyone's like, okay like and you're like, hey, I'm the here to write the song or like tell me like how what's the interaction in the room? Like how does that all work? I think every artist is different. Um, I definitely approach things differently than like other people that I've written for or you know, been in the studio with that particular session kind of started with, um, uh the artist talking about like what type of sound she wanted to go for and then Brian the genius that he is like just freestyled this entire incredible piano production, through in some drums through in some like, I don't know hiats, whatever. And uh, I just wrote over that sort of like top line. Oh, so you were writing the lyrics? Yeah, the lyrics in the melody. Wow. And obviously you you knocked it out of the park or he wouldn't have invited you back. You I mean, I guess. So then you just started working with him and and writing for other artists at that point? Yeah, for sure. It was kind of just like, um, you know, come through, I want you to like come to this session, whatever, quite casually. Um and then that's sort of how I started to meet people and get meetings once people were like, oh, like you've been writing with Brian like, let's talk, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um and then through that I sort of was able to put together my team and start working on my project as an artist. Yeah, when did you start, um, when did you decide like I want to do this and be an artist myself, like instead of writing for other people. I think that was always my end goal. Okay. Um, but I just hadn't figured out how to facilitate it yet. Um and then you know, I I I knew I wanted to do it, but I didn't really know how to put the pieces together and like what steps I actually had to take. And then Covid happened and, um, I was dating someone who was like from England, so I ended up being in Europe for almost all of quarantine. Oh, wow. Yeah. And while I was there was never in the studio, like wasn't really working. I kind of, you know, would rarely have access to piano and when I did would write as much as I could, but I think that taking that away from me made me have this like burning desire when I got back to the States and I just called up my now manager and I was like, hi. Can we grab coffee tomorrow like I want to talk to you? And from then on I just was in the studio like every day. Wow. Were you able to write it all when you're I mean you weren't in the studio setting but you were writing songs prior to Covid and then you're stuck and are you inspired at all? Are you writing any of the songs that you you've got a couple out now, but are you writing anything that you ended up recording after the fact? Um, yeah, I mean, uh while I was in Europe, I didn't I wasn't able to write much but um I on my way back to the States had to quarantine in Canada for two weeks. So I ordered like a just a little keyboard on Amazon to the place that I was quarantining in and spent all those two weeks writing. Um and there's definitely things that uh might be on like a future project. But what I'm releasing now, um, it's a three song EP that I wrote entirely all in one week in an Airbnb in Atlanta with my friends. Wow. Yeah, and that was at may be the like early last year. Um, Okay. Well real quick on the quarantine in Canada, were you in one of those like, they had like, I don't know if they're still doing this, but at the time I remember people were talking about you had to stay in like this hotel that the government kind of ran and they like forced you in there. Oh, luckily not. I so terrifying. That sounds like a little horror movie. I talked to an artist that had to do that.
[18:36]They played the states that was from Canada. They had to go back to they wanted to go back to Canada and they were like forced into quarantining in this like government run hotel and you weren't allowed to leave, they show up and like put the food by your door and you had to like open the door quickly and grab it. It just sounded like a total like nightmare. So I'm glad you didn't have that experience. I know, right? I'm so glad I didn't have to do that. Yeah, it was a I just ended up like renting an apartment. Oh, there you go. Quarantine in. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm glad that you didn't have to deal with that cuz that was like. I know, right? Yikes. Um, so then you go to Atlanta, what takes you to Atlanta in this Air B&B and was the purpose of going there to write, which what became this record? Yeah. So, um, I had been writing a lot with my friend major Ma in LA in like January. And we made like some of my favorite songs I've ever done together. Those will definitely be coming out and I'm so excited about them. Um, but uh, we, I mean, I think have great like artistic chemistry. So, he uh, he's in this group, um under Atlanta called Ghost and one of his like group members is named Dion Gill and he was like, I think we should like bring Dion into this. I think it would be a really really good fit. Um, and I'm like, okay, cool like, let's do it in Atlanta. So I booked an Airbnb in Atlanta and we just locked in for that whole week, made music while we were making breakfast, uh, you know, like by the couch, um, and just really approached it as from day one, like creating a body of work that lived in its own Sonic world. Um remember like the first day there, we went to Walmart and bought a whiteboard and just treated these songs as like their own little movie and wrote down like what the weather would be like and the colors and the moods and like other characters that might live in this world. And then wrote out a timeline for a movie, um, based on like the tracks that Dion had made, sort of like, okay, this is like the heist. This is like the celebration. This is like the heartbreak moment, you know, and it was so cool. I'd never approached making music that way, but I think the result was this very cohesive, unique sounding EP and that's why I've sort of packaged all of those songs together and wanted to start with that and sort of like use that as my foot forward and my in. Oh, wow. I've never heard anybody talk about writing a song like that. Yeah, I mean, I'd never done it before either. It was super cool and now I'm like, damn, I can't approach it any other way because it's just so detail oriented. So is that how you're writing now? I bet that's got to be a great, I mean, yeah. I think, um, I think that's a great approach when you're working on a project like a body of work that's its own thing.
[21:42]Um, right now I'm sort of just writing to write singles and like get as much out of myself as I can. Um, but you know, when it comes to making my debut album, I think I'm going to take a similar approach. That's amazing. That's amazing. You've released two songs from the EP, correct? So far. Yes. Okay. What was it like putting out admit it was the first one. Yes. What was it like putting out a song of your own as your artist project, you know, here's your your debut. What was that like? Um, honestly, a little bit nerve-wracking, super real. I you know, I grew up as a child actor on like Disney and Nickelodeon, so even though I've been putting out work and music and you know, stuff like that, I never had any creative control over any of the projects that I'd been a part of. So my music is the first thing that is 100% me. I have control and say over everything. I'm involved in every single part of the project. And to see people have like a positive reaction to that, especially knowing me from my acting work was so like, just the best feeling, you know? Really, really validating and really really nice to see. That is so cool. Did you have did you have a fear of people judging you thinking like, oh, she's just an actress from Nickelodeon show that thinks she's a singer now. Like did you obviously you weren't and you sang on the show. So who cares, but um I was just curious like if you had any of that like fear or any of that on your shoulders as far as when you put the song out. Uh yeah, I mean I try not to fear what other people think of me and you know, I try not to like meet outside expectations of myself, especially from people that you know, don't necessarily know me personally. I think I'd put in so much work into, you know, my music and my craft if you will that it was kind of this feeling of like, okay, even if you hate it like, I'm proud of what I made. Like I know the work that went into this and I'm just glad that like I get to put it out, you know? That's that's a great answer. I love that. That's a great answer. I love that outlook. That's so cool. Yeah. Um, yeah, and then I love the acoustic version you did also of admit it. Thank you. I think it's rad when artists do that. Tell me about that real quick. Um, yeah, I mean, we wrote the song to the track, uh, but again coming from this like songwriter piano background.
[24:26]Um, I I just recognize how beautiful and honest that song is lyrically and kind of wanted to show that in a new light and really, um, give those melodies and those lyrics a different setting so that they had their chance to like shine through. And, um, so I was really set on like doing a piano version of it and then Brian so generously generously, wow, sorry, I can't speak. So generously offered to do the, um, accompaniment on the live version and just absolutely killed it.
[25:07]I think he I mean when he heard when he like played me what he was going to do underneath the music like one of my managers literally started crying. We're like, you are a musical genius. I love it and yeah, it was such an honor to sing over such a beautiful accompaniment like that. Yeah, I love that version. I mean, both of them are awesome, but I really there's something to be said about a song that can be stripped back like that and have it be that impactful. I mean, sing your manager like teared up on hearing it. Like that's huge. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think, um, I agree. I think the mark of a well-written song is like if you can put it on the piano and it still sounds good and you know, you can give it its own life. I totally agree with that. I totally agree. And the most recent one is Yes. Tell me about it. Um, so that one we made uh after admit it again, same week, same Airbnb in Atlanta. Um, and honestly, so Dion had made I we delved into this Sonic world, you know, with this whole whiteboard and everything. And after that Dion got to work on like building the tracks. I was very set on wanting to include like traditional Asian instrumentation into them, but frame them in this like modern pop R&B setting and structure and then write, obviously, my very feminine, you know, pop lyrics over them. Um and I was obsessed with the like idea of that j position. So he I explained that to him, woke up the next morning and he had done like eight tracks. And I was like, oh my God, I love them all. Like can we use all of them and on one of the days, he just had the track for playing in the background as we were in one of the rooms just talking and you know, we're friends. So I'm just telling them like, you know, when someone is so cute until they start talking and they just ruin it for themselves and you're like, damn, you were doing so good. Like you had me and you ruined it. Um, and then we just started laughing and talking about like times that it happened to us and while that was going on, I can't remember who did it, but someone just went over the beat like in the exact time that it's in now and I go, oh my gosh, that's it.
[27:32]Like that's what we're going to write about that's the hook like, let's go. And then we started just having fun with the lyrics. I mean, it's a very tongue and cheek song. When I was writing the verses I wanted to kind of pay homage to like your sassy unapologetic 90s pop star. Um, there's a lyric in there that says like your daddy's black card, don't impress me much and that's like play on Twain's that don't impress me much. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Um, so it was just so much fun. Um, we happened super fast and we just had a good time like laughing writing the lyrics. That's so funny. That's such a great concept for a song. Thanks. And then you said there's three on the record, obviously, the third one hasn't came out yet. Yes. The third one, I think is my favorite. Um, it's kind of what uh, I think set into motion the tone of the project. Um, we major and I wrote it, um, and we were like, oh, this is dope. Like this is really really cool. I like this direction. Let's kind of go forward with this. Um, it's probably the most upbeat of the three. Um, and yeah, definitely my favorite. Was it the last song you wrote of the three? No, it actually it was the first. The first song you wrote. Okay. And so it went that one than what was the second song admit it. Admit it and then.
[29:03]Okay. Well, I like the I mean, like I said, I like the first two so I can't wait to hear the third and I'm sure you can't talk a whole lot about it, but you know, it's funny people always say like, oh, I can't say anything. No one's really told me like don't say this. Oh, then let's hear about the song.
[29:21]I'm not going to get you in trouble. I promise. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I don't want to like give away too much obviously like I want to, but I'm curious now because it's all part of this project with this white board and now I need to know how the story started. Uh here, what should I say? Like how do I sell myself? How do I get people to stream this shit?
[29:44]Um, yeah, it's um, it's again leans into that whole like j position thing that I really really like. It's a very hard like drill inspired beat. Um and I wanted to just like put a really feminine, like almost sensual like immersive type vocal and melody over that. Um and like explore what that would sound like if you were almost like singing rap lyrics, you know, like what does it sound like to sing bars? That might sound corny, but I think we pulled it off. Um and it feels super authentic to like me as a person and as an artist. Um, I kind of describe it as like, you know, I love artists like future for example who when you listen to them, you just feel so cool and it's so immersive and like hard and dark and I don't really think there's a female counterpart to that, you know? Um, I so that's kind of the feeling that I wanted to incite when you listen to this song. Um, obviously I'm not singing about like trap in the bando. It's a lyric that like are authentic to a 22-year-old girl. Um, but yeah, I think it insites that like cool feeling in you and I just wanted to give girls a way to feel that from a girl. Does that make sense? No, it totally does. And that's and that's what's going to kick off the EP when you put out the full EP. Um, well the EP, I mean, I guess that would round it out. Round it out because it'll be the last song. I didn't know if you were going to push it as like a, I think we're going to repackage it as an EP with the um, live version included in there as well. Oh, rad. Yeah. That is cool. What about plans to do any like you said you did a couple shows with the television show, but playing, I mean, obviously you can sing really well and live sing live. I mean with the admitted acoustic version. So is this something you're going to take on on the road or do some shows at least around LA or. Yeah, I mean I uh recently, um, sort of put together what my live show would be. I rehearsed with dancers and like, um, a band and put all of the songs on this EP to a live band.
[32:16]Um, which gave them a whole new life. Um and we shot a really cool like live performance video of that. Uh which we're working on right now and I hope I'll get to put out soon. Awesome. Um, but I think that would be essentially the show that we put on. Um, it's been a little tricky just with like restrictions and everything being so not stable. Um, but I don't want to like make promises that I can't follow through on. Yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah. But I love performing. I think that's one of my favorite aspects of the whole job. So as soon as the opportunity is there, I will be there. Amazing. Well, I'm in Nashville now. I'm originally from San Diego, so I know LA quite well. Yeah, but my I've we moved to Nashville about a year almost a year ago. Um and we love it here, but you should come here and play. I would love to see your show. I'm determined to write a country song. I was actually talking about it with Brian, um, because he goes to Nashville a lot and is one of Grammy's for country music too. And I grew up listening to country music. Like Carrie Underwood was my favorite artist growing up because I my dad gave me his iPod when I was living in Beijing to listen to music on like the bus to school and all that was on there was like Elton John, Eric Clapton, um, Carrie Underwood. And so that's like the music that I grew up listening to. I think I listened to what's the album called? Like some hearts. Yeah. Under for a year. Is that the one that has the. Yeah, that's what that's what it's on my B list to write a country song. Oh, that's right. Well, I was going to say not moving to Nashville. I thought I was like, oh, this is just a country town, but really it's it's there are so many like pop, uh, there's so many different genres of music and producers here. I was really shocked. That's awesome. So you should come write a song here, too. That would be cool. I would love to. Come with Brian next time. He makes a trip to Nashville. Okay. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I really really appreciate your time. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I have one more quick question. I want to know if you have any advice for aspiring artists. Um, oof, uh, learn how to have a flexible sleep schedule. I that's very obscure, but, um, I'd always been such a morning person. I just naturally fall into like waking up at like 6:30 7 in the morning, and that is not conducive to the artist lifestyle. I really had to take a huge like segway into figuring out how to last through sessions that last till like 4:35 in the morning. Um, so yeah, if you're a morning person, switch over.
